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Featured Is Satan a Deity?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Eddi, Nov 12, 2020.

  1. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying

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    We've only heard one side of that story

    Perhaps God isn't really a very nice person?

    If they are enemies then why doesn't the omnipotent God simply annihilate Satan?
     
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  2. firedragon

    firedragon Veteran Member

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    in Islamic theology as stipulated in the Quran, only God is deity. So no, Satan is no deity.
     
  3. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    There is only one side of that story.
    If you think God is a liar or "not a very nice person" then perhaps you need to read the Bible and see his personality reflected in the teachings and actions of his son....who represented his father perfectly.

    God has fully planned to do just that, as it is written in the scriptures, but not until he has used the devil to flush out all those whose thinking and actions do not align with God's. All humanity are being tested as to fitness for citizenship in God's incoming Kingdom.

    We all have to ask ourselves....Am I good citizenship material? What does God think of me?...how can I know? How do I shape up in God's eyes?
     
  4. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Personally, I could make a case for how Satan in the bible is actually a hero for standing up to an allmighty psychopathic bully, knowingly rebelling in a fight he can't possibly win.


    Kind of like this guy:

    upload_2020-11-13_11-40-30.png
     
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  5. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying

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    There's only one side of the story that you're interested in, yes

    I think Jesus Christ and the God of the Old Testament are very different characters
     
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  6. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    Reading the bible, god's personality seems to be that of a jealous, vengeful, vindictive, psychopathic, narcistic, cruel, homophobic, barbaric sexist that has no problems with slavery and who holds eternal grudges.

    A bit Trumpian actually... a man-child who demands to be worshipped and loved and who, in his narcistic delusions, wants to punish everyone that doesn't.

    That doesn't sound "nice" to me at all. In fact, it's pretty much the definition of a horrible personality. It's going to be very difficult to find a personality that's even worse.

    :rolleyes:

    You have just acknowledged that which you previously called horrible... which is that god uses satan as a pawn to punish all those that he can convince. So yes, you actually do agree with the idea that satan does exactly what god wants him to do.

    If god didn't want satan to lure humans over to his team, then the omnipotent god COULD stop him.
    The fact that he doesn't either means that he can't or that he doesn't want to.

    If he can't, then he ain't as powerful as you thought he was (and then he also couldn't do it in the future)
    If he simply doesn't want to, then at best it means he doesn't care. At worst, he in facts wants satan to do what he does.


    Those seem to be the only options.


    Exactly like @Eddi said, which you disagreed to and called "horrible".
    You're using different words, but you are saying the same thing. Humans are being tested and satan is part of the test. Aka, satan is doing what god wants him to do.

    Yes, the people in North Korea have to ask themselves that question all the time (about The Great Leader)
    It's how dictators and tyrants keep their flock in line. Through fear.

    Only insecure people with bad intentions need to resort to fear tactics to keep their following.
     
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  7. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Well-Known Member

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    The existence or non-existence of Satan is puzzling.

    Islamic religion comes from Christian religion. Christian religion comes from Jewish religion. Jewish religion has elements of older religions, so some believe that it is derived from them (perhaps Norse).

    Jews used to be polytheists, and didn't believe in Satan nor hell.

    So, who made up the idea of Satan and hell? Apparently the Catholic religion did. But, why? Maybe that was the Catholic churches idea of scaring people into joining their faith (or risk burning for all eternity in hell)? Maybe they could scare people into donating more money?

    If Satan (or evil) doesn't exist, then what kind of entity was the snake in the Garden of Eden that convinced Adam and Eve to taste the forbidden fruit of knowledge? What kind of knowledge was that? Carnal knowledge (how to make babies, and over-populate?)?

    Many passages of the various versions of the New Testament say that we must not allow Satan to tempt us. Yet, older versions of the bible seem to say that we should not make evil decisions ourselves. So, is evil from some external evil (aka Satan or the devil), or is it a choice that we must avoid? When you look up ancient versions of the bible in Latin, Hebrew, or Greek, you will find that these passages could easily been misinterpreted.

    Was the concept of Satan from God or from mankind? If the concept of Satan didn't exist before Christianity, why do people believe it today?

    Christianity (with the concept of Satan) is very powerful. It motivated Native Americans to help Father Junipero Serra build California missions. An interesting story was about a ferryboat traveling around the tip of South America and up the Colorado River in Baja, California. The Indians heard of Satan belching smoke, and they saw a steam ship that fit that description. They ran screaming that the devil was swimming up the Colorado river, and it was belching smoke and kicking its feet (paddle wheel). So, from this story (and many others), we can understand why the concept of Satan has been used to gain converts, keep those who converted, and to try to make the world a better city.
     
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  8. BlueSky95

    BlueSky95 Member

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    Everything is in God, right? If something exists outside God, let's say Satan or all that's evil, then God is not God but a part of something bigger, so with this logical thinking, Satan and the evil are also part in God, just saying, some people can't even understand this............... Evil is in God just in the same way good is in God.
     
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  9. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    Well, suspicions do get raised when your regular lifestyle consists of gathering together to party all night long followed by whole burned offerings for each person first thing in the morning like Job's family regularly did. God pointed this out to Satan. (See Job chapter 1)
     
  10. Tambourine

    Tambourine Well-Known Member

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    Satan is just a servant of God in the Bible, and not even a particularly important one (he shows up like a handful of times, tops) and all the rest is Eurochristian fanfiction.
     
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  11. Goddess Kit

    Goddess Kit Active Member

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    Originally, according to christian mythology, no. He was an angel.

    When he was cast out of heaven, he merely became a fallen angel.

    Deities create, and lucifer did not create hell. God did.
     
  12. Kelly of the Phoenix

    Kelly of the Phoenix Well-Known Member

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    Why did God stop being God of the world He created?
     
  13. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    It's a side effect of God wanting to see that Creation is good. In order to see it, per the story in Genesis, there needs another side opposing good. This is, imo, the reason Satan exists, it's so that God can *see* the good.
     
  14. Bird123

    Bird123 Well-Known Member

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    Satan can't be a Deity. Why? Satan does not really exist. Beliefs and stories do not translate into Reality.

    That's what I see. It's very clear!!
     
  15. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how you came to that conclusion ... Satan is nothing more than a rebellious angelic being that has set himself up as a god/king to his followers but is not accepted as a god by us and definitely not as the same substance as the most High God.
     
    #35 74x12, Nov 13, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
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  16. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Well, since there is God’s side of the story, and the side of a proven liar, which one can you trust?

    Since Jesus always upheld his Father’s sovereignty and laws, how can that be? He said that if you saw him, he so perfectly reflected the personality of his Father, it was like seeing God himself. (John 14:9-10)

    What was different were the circumstances. Here is a run down of that new situation....

    After releasing his people from slavery in Egypt and a 40 year wandering in the wilderness, (as punishment for their complaining spirit, disobedience and lack of faith, despite spectacular displays of his power) God isolated his chosen nation in a clearly defined territory and told them to stay separate from the surrounding nations who worshipped false gods.......but their homeland was subject to conquest by other nations because the land was choice. Their defence of their territory was backed by their God Jehovah, who was often pitted against the gods of the warring nations. Demonstrating his superiority to the leaders and people of those nations was paramount. Just as he humiliated the false gods of Egypt, he would continue to show his superiority to the invading nations and their inept gods.

    Israel, in their sad and sorry history, provided a written record of God’s dealings with the only nation who were in a covenant relationship with him (of their own volition) and how he gave them laws and expected their obedience. When they obeyed God, he blessed them abundantly, but they could never maintain their obedience and fell away to false worship under poor leadership. They suffered a withdrawal of his spirit and the punishments were often severe. They were bound to the old covenant and it’s laws, but this was never meant to last indefinitely. Jeremiah foretold that a new covenant would be inaugurated, one that was NOT like the old one. (Jeremiah 31:31-32)

    Jesus was the mediator of that new covenant and as God’s appointed King, he would bring in a new era of peace. His message was declaring something better to come....a coming kingdom that would rule the world in peace, love and justice......the history of Israel would serve as a backdrop for God’s expectations of his worshippers. The new covenant had only two laws....often called “the law of the Christ” or “the law of love”. But the moral principles of the old covenant still applied in these two laws.....to ‘love God with our whole heart, mind, and soul....and to love our neighbor as ourselves’.

    All who choose to become Christ’s disciples must conform to God’s requirements and obey his laws.....they are not negotiable. Don’t let anyone tell you that God ever requires less. He has one standard that never varies. His justice is set in concrete. He requires our obedience to all his laws.......and always has.

    Does that help?
     
  17. Eddi

    Eddi Eddifying

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    How can you know he's a proven liar?

    The "testimony" of God?

    I go through what you have written after I have had something to eat, I will listen to what you have to say
     
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  18. SeekerOnThePath

    SeekerOnThePath On a mountain between Nietzsche and Islam

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    Abrahamism is anti-Anthropomorphic, that is why it exists in the first place.
    Jesus himself didn't, no, not in the New Testament context. There are barely any mentions from him.
     
  19. Neuropteron

    Neuropteron Active Member

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    Hi,
    The Apostle Paul called Satan the God of this system of things.

    2Co 4:4 "amongst whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers , that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through."
     
  20. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    If you doubt the testimony of God...what else do you have?
    Jesus called the devil a liar.....do you believe him?
     
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