Is "salvation" possible under the Law?

[Ben Avraham]

I think it isn't about saving your own buttocks.
I believe that the law is not useless but, I am certain that if everybody was subject to love, murder would be an alien concept. The Tanach is MUCH MORE than reasonable laws. Correct? Are there no laws which are a part of The Law that are unreasonable, in your opinion? I think if you say, "no" you lie. If you say, "yes", tell us what they are for, please.

If that's how you think, I pity you. Love! The percentage is great of crimes committed in the name of love. Subjection to love does not exist. The laws on the Decalogue were given to promote happiness and harmony which the opposite would be the law of the jungle. The laws if obeyed, will only bring salvation from the troubles of life as a result of transgressions.

 

[savagewind]

If that's how you think, I pity you. Love! The percentage is great of crimes committed in the name of love. Subjection to love does not exist. The laws on the Decalogue were given to promote happiness and harmony which the opposite would be the law of the jungle. The laws if obeyed, will only bring salvation from the troubles of life as a result of transgressions.

I agree with you about The Decalogue. How can you be so dense?

 

[savagewind]

. Subjection to love does not exist. .

It is obvious to me that to believe that way is what is wrong with the World.

 

[Ben Avraham]

WHO says the law is defined as the Decalogue?

I have always understood Jewish law means ALL the laws the Jews were given to obey.
gramma Greek for "letters". (Strong's 1121) Romans 7:6 Letters or learning written for others to obey.
It is about what they were doing to what was written as in making it more and more orders to obey.

http://biblehub.com/greek/1121.htm

I agree that there are no unreasonable laws in the Decalogue. But how can anyone even begin to imagine the Decalogue is what the NT is about?

In Romans 7:6, Paul meant to have been released from the Law of the Decalogue. Read verse 7. Where is it written not to covet if not in the Decalogue? He was standing in contradiction to Jesus who taught to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31; Mat. 5:17-19) Then, you wander how one can find out that the NT could be against the Decalogue. You don't read!
that's why. The allegory proposed by Paul in Romans 7:1-7 is to justify his doctrine that we have been released of the Law with the death of Jesus. How do I know that? Because I focus when I am reading. The reference to the Decalogue is in verse 7. Read!

 

[Ben Avraham]

It is obvious to me that to believe that way is what is wrong with the World.

Subjection to love is a lying language that one loves another or is loved by the other. Real love is free and a giver of freedom.

 

[savagewind]

In Romans 7:6, Paul meant to have been released from the Law of the Decalogue. Read verse 7. Where is it written not to covet if not in the Decalogue? He was standing in contradiction to Jesus who taught to listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31; Mat. 5:17-19) Then, you wander how one can find out that the NT could be against the Decalogue. You don't read!
that's why. The allegory proposed by Paul in Romans 7:1-7 is to justify his doctrine that we have been released of the Law with the death of Jesus. How do I know that? Because I focus when I am reading. The reference to the Decalogue is in verse 7. Read!

Deuteronomy 7:25
The graven images of their gods you are to burn with fire; you shall not covet the silver or the gold that is on them, nor take it for yourselves, or you will be snared by it, for it is an abomination to the LORD your God.

1 Timothy 6:10

Matthew 19:24

 

[savagewind]

Subjection to love is a lying language that one loves another or is loved by the other. Real love is free and a giver of freedom.

OK. It doesn't mean to be in subjection to each love. I think LOVE made the universe so it is to THAT love that a person ought to be in subjection. You might even relate that subjection to love to evolution.

 

[savagewind]

1 Samuel 2:13-15 read it! LOL

Are you catching up? HE said coveting is only mentioned in the Decalogue so when Paul wrote what he wrote is had to be about that. I say, "read it and cry".

 

[savagewind]

I think I like Micah! Micah 3:3

Isaiah 3:14

 

[Ben Avraham]

I agree with you about The Decalogue. How can you be so dense?

Confusing! How can you agree with someone who is so dense?

1 Samuel 2:13-14 read it! LOL

This is a reference to the sons of the High Priest Eli who would not give a damn to the rules about eating of the sacrifices only after the ritual had reached its end. What does it have to do
with the issue under discussion?

 

[savagewind]

Confusing! How can you agree with someone who is so dense?

You're cute? I mean I think maybe you are cute AND I am sure you do not want to kill me. Right? @Ben Avraham

This is a reference to the sons of the High Priest Eli who would not give a damn to the rules about eating of the sacrifices only after the ritual had reached its end.

Aha. I am not one little bit surprised.

 

[savagewind]

Dense does not mean always wrong. I actually think that always right and always wrong are two impossibilities. Don't you too?

 

[roger1440]

Actually, no. That is not what I said.
I do, however, believe that someone who wants to honestly call themself a Christian should believe what Jesus Christ said.
Each and every person in the world is free to believe NONE of what Jesus said if they wish. They should just not call themself a CHRISTIAN.

PS. The OP was in the present tense, so unless there are lots of people several thousand years old running around, the 'last 2000 years' you mentioned was not relevent to what "most Christians" ARE claiming.

If a person doesn't believe in a specific set of books then how can a person believe in Jesus?

 

[psychoslice]

When you say, "One with God or One with the Cosmos" what do you mean? Are you implying that one is the same as the other?

I see no other, all is One.

 

[atpollard]

If a person doesn't believe in a specific set of books then how can a person believe in Jesus?

They probably can't.

However, just for the record, I actually said that Christians needed to believe what Jesus said was true, so people who do not believe what Jesus said, should probably not call themselves Christians.

See:

Given Jesus words (above), I would argue that Jesus presents Jesus as the only way to get into heaven. So it isn't really "many" Christians who present this as the case, but all Christians. Those who do not believe what Jesus said is true should stop calling themself Christians.

 

[roger1440]

However, just for the record, I actually said that Christians needed to believe what Jesus said was true, so people who do not believe what Jesus said, should probably not call themselves Christians.

How does anyone know what is said? The guy is dead. Didn't you get the memo?

 

[savagewind]

They probably can't.

However, just for the record, I actually said that Christians needed to believe what Jesus said was true, so people who do not believe what Jesus said, should probably not call themselves Christians.

See:

Jesus is the truth. The TRUTH is that, "Jesus is said to have said.......".
I believe in what Jesus is said to have said. I think, why not?
I believe the account of Jesus is what the writers actually perceived, heard and saw.
I trust I do not have to believe in one flesh and blood man who is said to have done all those things
to know the truth that sets me free. If, like you all say, the real man dying is what sets you free, then you are
not free imo. You are bound to another person's death forever.

 

[savagewind]

I do not understand that anyone can say they believe in Jesus, the way, the truth and the life, but at the same time propagate even one lie. I think people have to learn the hard lesson which is, I DON'T KNOW.

 

[atpollard]

How does anyone know what is said? The guy is dead. Didn't you get the memo?

rofl.
Was the pun intended?
Yes, I got the 'memo' and THAT is how I know what He said.

Now how do we know the 'memo' is true? That becomes the question.

(Technically, he rose from the dead, so he WAS dead, but now he LIVES ... at least according to the 'memo').

 

[atpollard]

Jesus is the truth. The TRUTH is that, "Jesus is said to have said.......".
I believe in what Jesus is said to have said. I think, why not?
I believe the account of Jesus is what the writers actually perceived, heard and saw.
I trust I do not have to believe in one flesh and blood man who is said to have done all those things
to know the truth that sets me free. If, like you all say, the real man dying is what sets you free, then you are
not free imo. You are bound to another person's death forever.

Mat 10:22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mat 24:13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mar 13:13 Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mar 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Jhn 10:9 I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. They will come in and go out, and find pasture.

Act 2:21 And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'

Act 11:14 He will bring you a message through which you and all your household will be saved.'

Act 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Rom 10:13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

I wonder if there might be a common theme running through all of these verses by different authors in different books and letters.
Now it is up to YOU to:

Phl 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,

Which is just another version of Pascal's Wager. The stakes are high so don't stop at guesses and opinions. Figure it out for yourself. Ask God for help, that hardly seems like an unreasonable request if any of the Bible really is the Truth.