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Is religion loosing aesthetics?

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
When I think of religion I think of a form of human expression that summarizes the values, dreams and purpose of a given culture. Yet when I see religion nowadays I notice the trend towards modernity, the usage of religion for tax purposes, establishing political influence, pushing legislation in religious favors etc. What I do not see is the genuine salvation of man's spirit from a life of materialism.

Instead I see churches like this:
th


or charlatans dressed in horrendous suits like this

creflo-dollar_credit-creflo-a-dollar-facebook.jpg


What I am not seeing is this

2.jpg


Or this

010713_EXP_OrthodoxChristmas.jpg.CROP.rectangle3-large.jpg



The ultimate expression of religion as a source of tradition and unadulterated human art is no longer being emphasized anymore. I feel as if secularism is pushing mankind so far into the sciences that it is pushing him pass the humanities. Poetry, aesthetics, literature, classical art and music are being suppressed so heavily that now we have Christian rock and Islamic punk music as a mainstream in the religious world.

Religion has long since pushed the arts into the mainstream world and much art as we know was done under the classical nature of religious or monarchical pursuits which themselves were ordained through religion often times.

I am not trying to rant against modernity but at the same time I feel as if modernity is slipping into areas it has no place or at least no place in entirety.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
When I think of religion I think of a form of human expression that summarizes the values, dreams and purpose of a given culture. Yet when I see religion nowadays I notice the trend towards modernity, the usage of religion for tax purposes, establishing political influence, pushing legislation in religious favors etc. What I do not see is the genuine salvation of man's spirit from a life of materialism.

Instead I see churches like this:
th


or charlatans dressed in horrendous suits like this

creflo-dollar_credit-creflo-a-dollar-facebook.jpg


What I am not seeing is this

2.jpg


Or this

010713_EXP_OrthodoxChristmas.jpg.CROP.rectangle3-large.jpg



The ultimate expression of religion as a source of tradition and unadulterated human art is no longer being emphasized anymore. I feel as if secularism is pushing mankind so far into the sciences that it is pushing him pass the humanities. Poetry, aesthetics, literature, classical art and music are being suppressed so heavily that now we have Christian rock and Islamic punk music as a mainstream in the religious world.

Religion has long since pushed the arts into the mainstream world and much art as we know was done under the classical nature of religious or monarchical pursuits which themselves were ordained through religion often times.

I am not trying to rant against modernity but at the same time I feel as if modernity is slipping into areas it has no place or at least no place in entirety.
You mean art and sculpture like this?

Durga Puja 2016 : Must See Pandals Of South Kolkata!

My home city in 2016.
 

Shia Islam

Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
Premium Member
When I think of religion I think of a form of human expression that summarizes the values, dreams and purpose of a given culture. Yet when I see religion nowadays I notice the trend towards modernity, the usage of religion for tax purposes, establishing political influence, pushing legislation in religious favors etc. What I do not see is the genuine salvation of man's spirit from a life of materialism.

Instead I see churches like this:
th


or charlatans dressed in horrendous suits like this

creflo-dollar_credit-creflo-a-dollar-facebook.jpg


What I am not seeing is this

2.jpg


Or this

010713_EXP_OrthodoxChristmas.jpg.CROP.rectangle3-large.jpg



The ultimate expression of religion as a source of tradition and unadulterated human art is no longer being emphasized anymore. I feel as if secularism is pushing mankind so far into the sciences that it is pushing him pass the humanities. Poetry, aesthetics, literature, classical art and music are being suppressed so heavily that now we have Christian rock and Islamic punk music as a mainstream in the religious world.

Religion has long since pushed the arts into the mainstream world and much art as we know was done under the classical nature of religious or monarchical pursuits which themselves were ordained through religion often times.

I am not trying to rant against modernity but at the same time I feel as if modernity is slipping into areas it has no place or at least no place in entirety.

I think this has to do with the fact is that religion in many places has lost much of its power..

When you are the King you build palaces and buy great portraits, when you are an average man you buy a modest house or rent a flat!
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
I think this has to do with the fact is that religion in many places has lost much of its power..

When you are the King you build palaces and buy great portraits, when you are an average man you buy a modest house or rent a flat!

I agree. This is my most massive gripe with capitalism at the moment. It reduces many things to utter squander on the basis of price and and affordability. I have promised myself along with my future wife this will not be the case
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
3518523198_89ceae586d.jpg


Many of the state churches here are crude, there's a joke about them being bunkers against Satan. Part of the crudeness is because of the historical theological view that they thought they were fighting what their meager understandings thought of as idolatry of the Catholics and pagans(though it was eased later on). Kind of makes sense why religion is in decline among people born with innate aesthetic senses.

It's not even that the Church can't afford it, they've been rich from the taxes and government support.
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Many of the state churches here are crude, there's a joke about them being bunkers against Satan. Part of the crudeness is because of the historical theological view that they thought they were fighting what their meager understandings thought of as idolatry of the Catholics and pagans(though it was eased later on). Kind of makes sense why religion is in decline among people born with innate aesthetic senses.

It's not even that the Church can't afford it, they've been rich from the taxes and government support.

I am gonna be honest here and say that such a building looks like one of those outposted abandoned complexes thank drunk college frats take number 2's in. It looks horrendous.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
When I think of religion I think of a form of human expression that summarizes the values, dreams and purpose of a given culture. Yet when I see religion nowadays I notice the trend towards modernity, the usage of religion for tax purposes, establishing political influence, pushing legislation in religious favors etc. What I do not see is the genuine salvation of man's spirit from a life of materialism.

The ultimate expression of religion as a source of tradition and unadulterated human art is no longer being emphasized anymore. I feel as if secularism is pushing mankind so far into the sciences that it is pushing him pass the humanities. Poetry, aesthetics, literature, classical art and music are being suppressed so heavily that now we have Christian rock and Islamic punk music as a mainstream in the religious world.

Religion has long since pushed the arts into the mainstream world and much art as we know was done under the classical nature of religious or monarchical pursuits which themselves were ordained through religion often times.

I am not trying to rant against modernity but at the same time I feel as if modernity is slipping into areas it has no place or at least no place in entirety.
I think you are confused.

Religions were once the dominant political, economic, and cultural juggernauts of human society. In that capacity they needed to make spectacles of their power through the use of art and architecture and theater in their buildings and rituals, as well as through their ability to inflict real suffering and even death upon those who would dare to oppose their authority. But that began to change when modern nations and people began to separate their politics, their economic systems, and their individual rights from the domination of religion. And not surprisingly, the spectacle of religious expression changed, accordingly. The churches became less opulent, the rituals became less mysterious and more participatory, the artifice became simpler and less propagandizing, and their ability to punish people's "sins" became mostly rhetorical and symbolic.

And this is as it should be, and as it always should have been. Religions make for lousy governments, lousy law enforcers, lousy art patrons, and lousy businesses. They don't belong in these fields of endeavor. They should stick to what they're good at, which is helping individuals to determine what it means to be a better human being, and then helping them to become one.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Times change, and some religious institutions have tried to change along with it, but not being sure how to and trying to pander to an ever-tougher crowd, they fall down a lot. Not surprising, really. Churches and the religious beliefs they espouse were never very well equipped to deal with inspection by individuals employing good ol' critical thinking - and with the access we have to knowledge of all manner of belief systems, and the exposure we get now to all sorts of people and cultures... well, to me this eventuality makes a lot of sense.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
When I think of religion I think of a form of human expression that summarizes the values, dreams and purpose of a given culture. Yet when I see religion nowadays I notice the trend towards modernity, the usage of religion for tax purposes, establishing political influence, pushing legislation in religious favors etc. What I do not see is the genuine salvation of man's spirit from a life of materialism.

Instead I see churches like this:
or charlatans dressed in horrendous suits like this

What I am not seeing is this

2.jpg


Or this

010713_EXP_OrthodoxChristmas.jpg.CROP.rectangle3-large.jpg



The ultimate expression of religion as a source of tradition and unadulterated human art is no longer being emphasized anymore. I feel as if secularism is pushing mankind so far into the sciences that it is pushing him pass the humanities. Poetry, aesthetics, literature, classical art and music are being suppressed so heavily that now we have Christian rock and Islamic punk music as a mainstream in the religious world.

Religion has long since pushed the arts into the mainstream world and much art as we know was done under the classical nature of religious or monarchical pursuits which themselves were ordained through religion often times.

I am not trying to rant against modernity but at the same time I feel as if modernity is slipping into areas it has no place or at least no place in entirety.
You still see plenty of brand-new churches like the one on the bottom (Orthodox/Eastern Catholic) springing up in the West. Give me the word and I can give you any number of Orthodox and Eastern Catholic parishes to prove it. Eastern Christianity hasn't had the same pressures on it that Western Christianity has, as far as modernism goes. (They got 70 years of Communism, or 1400 years of Islamic oppression depending on where you're at instead.)

The Orthodox and Eastern Catholics still remain very much aware that the church building should be an icon for the entirety of the Faith. You'll see icons everywhere, the iconostasis between the nave and the sanctuary, and the priests, deacons and altar servers in traditional vestments, and the traditional, centuries-old styles of chanting, because in Eastern Christianity these things are all non-negotiables. They keep the faith of their forebears, and they recognize that their senses and bodies should be engaged in worship as well, not just their brains like in Western Christianity.

Ultimately, I think the barrenness of many churches like ones people have posted in this thread is that imagery and iconography has for the most part lost its meaning in Western Christianity, so the faithful got rid of it because they didn't see the point. Protestants call it idolatry, so they got themselves four bare walls and a sermon. Catholics started doing the same thing because they wanted to make their church more appealing to Protestants. I've heard an Orthodox person call those churches like the ones in the OP and in Jumi's post "monuments to spiritual death".
 
Last edited:

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm sure I don't need to point out to you that examples from Christianity do not constitute "religion." The Bardic arts are quite alive and well within the religious communities I identify with. :shrug:
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I'm sure I don't need to point out to you that examples from Christianity do not constitute "religion."
Christianity constitutes the vast majority of "religion" in the US (I assume the OP's in the US).
The Bardic arts are quite alive and well within the religious communities I identify with. :shrug:
And the vast majority of American communities have no Pagan architecture at all. Wikipedia only knows about 2 Pagan temples in all of North America, and one of them is in a converted historic building that didn't start out as a Pagan temple.

If we're talking about the current state of religious architecture, then we're only talking about religions that actually have architecture.
 
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