-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Is reality with Tao the ONE-God?
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I wondered how long it would be before you started in on Taoism. Turns out it wasn't long enough.
No it isn't.
"The Tao is like a well:
Used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void:
filled with infinite possibilities.
It is hidden but always present.
I do not know who gave birth to it.
It is older than God."
Tao Te Ching, stanza 4
No it isn't.
"The Tao is like a well:
Used but never used up.
It is like the eternal void:
filled with infinite possibilities.
It is hidden but always present.
I do not know who gave birth to it.
It is older than God."
Tao Te Ching, stanza 4
For me, I find peace in this line. It demonstrates that it is unnecessary to have all of the answers. I like that.
Divinity is very much on the eyes of the beholder.
If that's the story you want to tell yourself, sure. That said, such a story obfuscates much about the world's religious and cultural traditions. Considering I become annoyed when people conflate Ares with Mars (or worse, Ares with Aries which gives me massive "good grief" moments), I'm not going to be the type mushing together two very different cultures and religions and claiming they're the same somehow.
No. Two very different concepts, and many people are about to inform you of that.
Last edited:
That is not a grammatically correct question. It will be vague enough once corrected for grammar.
If you mean "Is one who is attuned with Tao also attuned with God", for instance, the answer will be that yes, he is, if you happen to be the kind of person who likes to use and emphasize God-concepts.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
In theory though, Luis, the individual who is attuned with the Tao is already well beyond entertaining notions of divinity and is not likely to blunder into ill-conceived god concepts.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Like introducing a new Taoist reality show with God ?
psychoslice
Veteran Member
There is nothing but the Tao, and it cannot be named, so forget about any god.
Kartari
Active Member
Hi Scotsman,
Agreed. Individuals are of course free to believe what they wish. But if we are concerned with the facts of history and the religion's own views from its own vantage point, Daoism is certainly not referring to God.
I would add that the use of the word "God" is a misnomer in this translation. China had no monotheistic conceptions during Daoism's formative centuries, and probably well into its maturity as a religion. The Daodejing from which you quote was written down several centuries before the birth of Jesus Christ. Offhand, I believe Manichaeism, which is dualistic, might be the earliest religion to even approach monotheism to reach China, which became a small minority in China several centuries after Jesus Christ's lifetime. Hence, all the more reason why the OP is factually incorrect.
Furthermore, the Chinese language did not even distinguish between singular and plural forms. I do not speak any Chinese dialect, but I have studied Confucian and Daoist texts enough to know this. This is probably why people who speak Chinese natively even today sometimes have trouble with pluralities, mistakenly referring to multiples in English using the singular word form (i.e. two dollar, instead of two dollars). So if somehow this line was referring to a deity, it would be linguistically impossible to know if one or more deities were being referred to. But religiously, we'd have to go with the plural since only polytheism was known to China.
Finally, I've seen translations use the English word "lord(s)" or even "all things" instead of "God." So I think this line should more accurately be translated to say, "It is older than the gods," or "It is older than all things."
Agreed. Individuals are of course free to believe what they wish. But if we are concerned with the facts of history and the religion's own views from its own vantage point, Daoism is certainly not referring to God.
I would add that the use of the word "God" is a misnomer in this translation. China had no monotheistic conceptions during Daoism's formative centuries, and probably well into its maturity as a religion. The Daodejing from which you quote was written down several centuries before the birth of Jesus Christ. Offhand, I believe Manichaeism, which is dualistic, might be the earliest religion to even approach monotheism to reach China, which became a small minority in China several centuries after Jesus Christ's lifetime. Hence, all the more reason why the OP is factually incorrect.
Furthermore, the Chinese language did not even distinguish between singular and plural forms. I do not speak any Chinese dialect, but I have studied Confucian and Daoist texts enough to know this. This is probably why people who speak Chinese natively even today sometimes have trouble with pluralities, mistakenly referring to multiples in English using the singular word form (i.e. two dollar, instead of two dollars). So if somehow this line was referring to a deity, it would be linguistically impossible to know if one or more deities were being referred to. But religiously, we'd have to go with the plural since only polytheism was known to China.
Finally, I've seen translations use the English word "lord(s)" or even "all things" instead of "God." So I think this line should more accurately be translated to say, "It is older than the gods," or "It is older than all things."
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I suspect that the word 'God' was added in by the author deliberately to more accurately reflect the Chinese view of the Tao - and because of an inevitable Christian bias by the author. Perhaps the original would have said something like "It is older than Heaven"? The Tao was obviously seen as the first cause of literally everything - even things Westerners would typically regard as the 'First Cause' such as God.
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
The upside of this thread is that it has rekindled my interest in some of the Taoist literature I have.
Wu Wei
ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
Is reality with Tao the ONE-God?
If that is what you want it to be, sure. If not, that's fine too. The Tao is simply the way.
The translation I have renders this as, "It is the forefather of the gods."
From this version: https://www.amazon.com/Tao-Te-Ching..._SR122,160_&psc=1&refRID=2WG8X6WDD851A40MTHJ2
The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
No doubt the translation I have was conceived by looking at the texts through the lens of religious monotheism which is fine in this case since that's what the OP is determined it should be viewed through too.
I studied Japanese in college, in that language, nouns do not have plural forms. You determine singular or plural by context. Now, I have not studied Chinese so I do not know for sure; but, I strongly suspect the same holds true. Which means the word being translated would not specify one god or many. I would need to look at the original Chinese. Japanese incorporates the Chinese writing system, so with what I know I should at the very least be able to recognize and read it in Japanese. Looking at the many ways this verse has been translated, the original Chinese character is going to be one of two...
Wu Wei
ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
One god = Yī shén
Many Gods = Xǔduō shén
shén = God
However I do not believe in a direct translation of the Tao Te Ching (Dàodéjīng 道德经) you will find shén (meaning this one 神) as god, or only one god, or only one true god as it applies to any type of worship
Tao (道) is way or road, not god
I personally do not see a conflict between Dàodéjīng and one god, but then I do not see a conflict between Dàodéjīng and greater than one God either
You can say one or many in Japanese as well. You can certainly specify a specific number, too. It looks though that Chinese is like Japanese in that the word "shen" does not change in dependence upon "Yi" or "Xuduo."