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Is punishment really the right approach for sin?

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Someone who believes in an almighty God?

To which I reply, which God? There are many (I am a firm believer in many deities, any number of which have been deemed almighty.) I also think the better approach is to search within oneself for forgiveness, either way, regardless of faith.
 

Wasp

Active Member
To which I reply, which God? There are many (I am a firm believer in many deities, any number of which have been deemed almighty.) I also think the better approach is to search within oneself for forgiveness, either way, regardless of faith.
How can many gods be almighty at the same time?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Typically when I commit sins, it's a result of being miserable. I've never shoplifted or got in a physical fight or committed any crime against another person because I was feeling good.

Were God to make me more miserable because I sinned, that is only liable to make me sin more and more seriously, and be more rebellious against God.

I think the sinner should be motivated by reward. The consequences for sin are still there, but it is simply that falling into the sin, (drug abuse is my vice) and accepting the brief reward for sin, causes the loss of a greater reward (the reward for resisting the urge to give in to the temptation).

I'm just convinced that if eternal hell was in God's original plan, God has likely changed his mind (yes, it is biblical that you can get God to change his mind) about it being a place of eternal suffering where souls cannot repent or change their mind.

I think even God would recognize how asinine and cruel that would be, especially considering that most people who reject Christianity are not people who know they are rejecting God or truth.

So, I'm assuming we can reason with God like Moses did, and stop God from making asinine or cruel moves against sinners.

Anyway, as I said, when I commit serious sin, my misery comes first . For example, when I commit the sin of sloth or laziness, it's always because I'm depressed or tired. When i have much energy, im not lazy and less likely to relapse.

When I blaspheme, it's almost always because I'm uncomfortable in my skin and want to die and hate God for giving me life. I think God flogging me isn't the answer to such an affliction.... neither is physical mortification (penance/self-flagelation), because bodily and mental suffering is causing the blasphemy to begin with.

If God offers a sinner something they long for , like the gift of prophecy, healing, visions Divinely inspired, a love affair, understanding, wisdom, spiritual extacy, financial help, sucess at school, new job, or some foretaste of heaven, that reward offered would cause less sin in our world far more than threat of destruction or hell would.

Thoughts? Does this post make more sense than God does as he is presented by the average Evangelical Christian or how the Bible presents him?

What is the correct way to decrease sin in our world?

What is sin in your book?

I see sin as a religious concept so not applicable to none religious
 

Goodman John

Active Member
That's certainly not within the realm of a classical Christian theology. I'm not sure you'd find it biblically defensible. But you may not be specifically in that wheel house.

I'm taking my cues from a Manichaean/Gnostic/Christian perspective; I'm finding all these threads coming together- albeit slowly- in my best approximation of a semi-reconstructed Cathar faith. There are a lot of issues I am not certain about, in either what I believe or what they believed- and as I'm no religious or theological scholar it is proving to be a brain-burning labor of love since there's a lot of half-baked crap conspiracy theories about them all over the place with little factual information to work with.

Of course, I could save myself a lot of work and shoplift one of more of the Catholic monastic Rules, considering much of their rules were inspired by or shoplifted from Cathar practices. Practice, though, only gets me halfway there- sorting out the belief system and theology/cosmology is the more difficult part since the Church wasn't keen on preserving what they considered to be heretical teachings!
 
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Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
I think the sinner should be motivated by reward. The consequences for sin are still there, but it is simply that falling into the sin, (drug abuse is my vice) and accepting the brief reward for sin, causes the loss of a greater reward (the reward for resisting the urge to give in to the temptation).

I'm just convinced that if eternal hell was in God's original plan, God has likely changed his mind (yes, it is biblical that you can get God to change his mind) about it being a place of eternal suffering where souls cannot repent or change their mind.

I think even God would recognize how asinine and cruel that would be, especially considering that most people who reject Christianity are not people who know they are rejecting God or truth.

So, I'm assuming we can reason with God like Moses did, and stop God from making asinine or cruel moves against sinners.

Anyway, as I said, when I commit serious sin, my misery comes first . For example, when I commit the sin of sloth or laziness, it's always because I'm depressed or tired. When i have much energy, im not lazy and less likely to relapse.

When I blaspheme, it's almost always because I'm uncomfortable in my skin and want to die and hate God for giving me life. I think God flogging me isn't the answer to such an affliction.... neither is physical mortification (penance/self-flagelation), because bodily and mental suffering is causing the blasphemy to begin with.

If God offers a sinner something they long for , like the gift of prophecy, healing, visions Divinely inspired, a love affair, understanding, wisdom, spiritual extacy, financial help, sucess at school, new job, or some foretaste of heaven, that reward offered would cause less sin in our world far more than threat of destruction or hell would.

Thoughts? Does this post make more sense than God does as he is presented by the average Evangelical Christian or how the Bible presents him?

What is the correct way to decrease sin in our world?

Education would be better. Eternal hell leaves no room to learn and do better. I like your take on it.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Sin is what is wrong, like raping and murdering children, crimes, even when nations like communist cambodia allow it.

Nope. Raping and murder are immorally wrong and criminal offences against a fellow human. A sin is an immoral transgression against devine belief.

Of course rape and murder can be considered a sin by various religious beliefs. But many do not consider the mores of your religion to be comparable to national law and human morality
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Sin, Crime. Yes, punishment is the only way. Who has time or resources in a nation of 1370 million people (India) to wait till they turn good? You have erred, take your punishment. Actually the convicted should be asked to pay for their internment. Why should public money be spent in providing them facilities? The money can be used for better purposes.
 

Goodman John

Active Member
Nope. Raping and murder are immorally wrong and criminal offences against a fellow human. A sin is an immoral transgression against devine belief.

Of course rape and murder can be considered a sin by various religious beliefs. But many do not consider the mores of your religion to be comparable to national law and human morality

Yet the Old Testament is rife with examples of genocide carried out by the Hebrews on "God's" orders- in multiple cases, none were spared. Men, women, children- all put to the sword. How then can we reasonably say that murder is a sin when "God" specifically ordered it? But that's on a wide scale- how about Abraham being ordered to sacrifice his son? Of course it was all a big joke to "God", but Abraham was fully prepared to murder his son because 'God told him to'. Are we to assume that if Abraham had been quicker on the draw and sliced Isaac's throat, his commission of murder would have been perfectly legit because it was a 'sacrifice'?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Yet the Old Testament is rife with examples of genocide carried out by the Hebrews on "God's" orders- in multiple cases, none were spared. Men, women, children- all put to the sword. How then can we reasonably say that murder is a sin when "God" specifically ordered it? But that's on a wide scale- how about Abraham being ordered to sacrifice his son? Of course it was all a big joke to "God", but Abraham was fully prepared to murder his son because 'God told him to'. Are we to assume that if Abraham had been quicker on the draw and sliced Isaac's throat, his commission of murder would have been perfectly legit because it was a 'sacrifice'?

If anyone wants to use god as an excuse for murdering someone then they use a different type of prison... with padded cells
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
I think the sinner should be motivated by reward. The consequences for sin are still there, but it is simply that falling into the sin, (drug abuse is my vice) and accepting the brief reward for sin, causes the loss of a greater reward (the reward for resisting the urge to give in to the temptation).

If the criminals read this article and they got convinced by it
may this probably cause criminal activity to increase by almost 1000%

I believe that God forgives sins but the guilty person must repent sincere and not return

As for the practice of mistakes and insistence on them systematically and bitterly disregarded
Here's the problem

Torment types, including psychological torment and chest tightness
Loss of luck and opportunity
There are negative things surrounding us when we do sins that we don't feel well and try to ignore

These things all work the pressure to try to force you to repent
Some are successful in finding and resolving the problem appropriately

Like a doctor who knew how to diagnose the disease and used the right medicine

GOD bless you brother
 

FooYang

Active Member
Typically when I commit sins, it's a result of being miserable. I've never shoplifted or got in a physical fight or committed any crime against another person because I was feeling good.

Were God to make me more miserable because I sinned, that is only liable to make me sin more and more seriously, and be more rebellious against God.

I think the sinner should be motivated by reward. The consequences for sin are still there, but it is simply that falling into the sin, (drug abuse is my vice) and accepting the brief reward for sin, causes the loss of a greater reward (the reward for resisting the urge to give in to the temptation).

I'm just convinced that if eternal hell was in God's original plan, God has likely changed his mind (yes, it is biblical that you can get God to change his mind) about it being a place of eternal suffering where souls cannot repent or change their mind.

I think even God would recognize how asinine and cruel that would be, especially considering that most people who reject Christianity are not people who know they are rejecting God or truth.

So, I'm assuming we can reason with God like Moses did, and stop God from making asinine or cruel moves against sinners.

Anyway, as I said, when I commit serious sin, my misery comes first . For example, when I commit the sin of sloth or laziness, it's always because I'm depressed or tired. When i have much energy, im not lazy and less likely to relapse.

When I blaspheme, it's almost always because I'm uncomfortable in my skin and want to die and hate God for giving me life. I think God flogging me isn't the answer to such an affliction.... neither is physical mortification (penance/self-flagelation), because bodily and mental suffering is causing the blasphemy to begin with.

If God offers a sinner something they long for , like the gift of prophecy, healing, visions Divinely inspired, a love affair, understanding, wisdom, spiritual extacy, financial help, sucess at school, new job, or some foretaste of heaven, that reward offered would cause less sin in our world far more than threat of destruction or hell would.

Thoughts? Does this post make more sense than God does as he is presented by the average Evangelical Christian or how the Bible presents him?

What is the correct way to decrease sin in our world?

I always find it hilarious that the one's complaining are usually atheists. "dA gOd oF dA oLd TeStAmEnT iS rEaLlY cRuEl, iD rAtHeR gO tO hElL tHaN wOrShEp tHaT tYrAnT, tHoSe bArBaRic AnCiEnT rElIGiOnS hAvE tO gO, i BeLiEvE iN hUmAn wRiTeS" :D
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I can honestly say the best thing I ever did ( as far as knowledge is concerned) was to reject mainstream Christian ideas and seek the truth as revealed in Scripture. Approach the Scripture as a child willing to be taught of God. And reject all man made ideas in favor of the Scripture.

I believe there is a danger in that. It is helpful to revue ones ideas with others so that we can catch those nasty misinterpretations that we so easily fall into.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Death is the only punishment for sin. Romans 7:23 says that.

(EDIT: Romans 6:23...sorry!)


Torment (after death) was made up by the Church, to exert control over its members. The teaching actually dishonors God.

I suppose when Jesus mentions gnashing of teeth that you either don't believe that indicates torment or you don't believe what Jesus says.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I suppose when Jesus mentions gnashing of teeth that you either don't believe that indicates torment or you don't believe what Jesus says.
So you’d rather think Jesus burns people? Than try to understand what He meant?

I’m glad I don’t have such a macabre view of Jesus.
 

Goodman John

Active Member
My view is that we're in 'hell' right now- this physical world/universe being 'hell' in the sense of a remoteness from God. I don't believe in the 'everlasting lake of fire' or any of those horror stories- we either get off this rock and back to God or we stay here and have to do this all over again until we get it right. But if we're slack and don't get out soon enough, we may miss the last bus to Paradise and miss meeting God altogether.

As for punishment of temporal sins, obviously the best approach is not do them in the first place. Failing that, though, confessing your sins- actually owning up to them and taking responsibility for them is in order. If your faith calls for a specific formula for remission of sins, go for it. Otherwise, do your best to repent and atone for it; some may undergo a self-imposed fast for a number of days, some may eat only oatmeal for a month, others may go really old-school and use the cilice and discipline and 'beat the Devil' out of themselves. Or it may be to do some sort of service to the community- the point is to DO something to demonstrate you are sorry for whatever it is you did. Finally, make a conscious effort to NOT DO THAT AGAIN. (Keep doing it, and God- or whoever your deity is- may have doubts about your being sorry about doing it.)
 
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