Is progressive revelation believable?

[Aupmanyav]

1. Not needed for the near future and a matter of fact no religion 'codifies' the needs of another manifestation.
2. Well, ah . . . none of the believers of any religion believe they failed. They, as you, believe other religions failed.
3. Hindus like all religious believers are human, and commit acts of violence in the name of whatever. Unless for some reason you are claiming Hindus are not human.
4. There is absolutely no evidence that the Baha'i Faith rejects other religions. In fact you are more acridly critical of other religions including the Baha'i Faith than anything the Baha'i Faith says of other religions.
5. The Baha'i Faith has never remotely proposed imposing anything on anyone, but you are sure playing aggressive hard ball concerning those who believe differently.
6. The obedience to Baha'i Laws is voluntary, and the Baha'i Faith has made it clear that LGBTQ people must be treated equally under secular law. Your extreme vindictive bias toward those that believe differently os overly apparent.
7. Belief is totally voluntary. The Baha'is absolutely do not insist on anybody believing anything that they do not believe in, but as I said before you appear to playing aggressive hard ball about what others who believe differently..
8. . More aggressive acrid assertions concerning those who believe differently.

1. The revelations are always internal to the religion. If Bahaullah revealed anything, it is only for his followers. It has no significance for followers of any other religion. If Bahaullah is a manifestation of Allah or Allah himself incarnated, it is for his followers. For followers of other regions, he is just another fake.
2. Well, you have the proof of its survival for at least 5,000 years since the IVC and coming of Aryans in India. The Shiva seal and the Mother Goddess idols.
3. Hindus have never cursed those who did not believe in their religion like the Abrahamic religions do, that includes Bahaullah.
4. If saying that the teaching of other religions are out-dated is not rejection, then what is it!
5. It is good that you are not in the position of imposing anything on other people otherwise you wanted the whole world to be ruled by a Bahai government. What you want is not universal peace but universal dominance, just like any other Abrahamic religion.
6. If your Allah considers LGBTQ aberrations, then how can they be treated equally!
7. But you make the worship of One Allah obligatory, a standard. I would like to know who has made that into a world standard.
8. I am an strong atheist, so I will always speak against belief in God \ Allah and prophets \ sons \ messengers \ manifestations \ mahdis supposed to have been sent by this imaginary entity.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Right, and I don't doubt that those who grew up "in other cultures" may have found spiritual strength and solace within the faith community in which they were raised. Nor do I doubt that there are atheists who grew up in non-theistic households and have never had any motivation to find a faith community. Nor do I doubt that there are folks who grew up in Christian households, parted ways from/with the Christianity in which they were raised as soon as they were able, and found that life "without Jesus" was a relief worth the departure.

That’s really all I wanted to hear from you Terry.

But you're still not "getting the point" of my response to Kelly the Phoenix.

You made a personal statement about why Jesus was important in your life to one who no longer considers herself Christian. If there’s more to it, then you’re right.

I said to a Baha'i in so many words: You haven't given me a good enough reason to become a Baha'i. I don't need the Baha'u'llah to tell me that all of humanity is one family and earth is our home.

For the purposes of this forum I hope a Baha’i wouldn’t be trying to convince you to become a Baha’i. I’m certainly not trying to convince you. Besides you are clearly committed to your current Christian path.

Kelly the Phoenix, a former "Christian", added Jesus to the list of unnecessaries.

• Kelly of the Phoenix

Kelly and I talk from time to time. She seems like a nice person, clever and with a cutting sense of humour. She’s a fellow health professional.

I wasn't proselytizing or debating, just disagreeing and explaining why.

I don’t doubt that.

It's one thing to agree with one of my opinions. It's another thing to add your opinion to mine and assume that I'm going to agree with your opinion just because it kinda looks like mine, when it ain't.

Is that what I was doing? I thought I was checking out to what extent you were able to appreciate how another’s non-Jesus spiritual experience is as valid to them as your Jesus experience is to you. Your views are yours to keep. I have no desire to put words in your mouth. Nor do I expect you to agree with me.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Is that what I was doing? I

No. At least I didn't think so. However, correctly or incorrectly, I thought Kelly was. She agreed with me and added Jesus to Baha'u'llah as her "unnecessaries".

 

[Dawnofhope]

No. At least I didn't think so. However, correctly or incorrectly, I thought Kelly was. She agreed with me and added Jesus to Baha'u'llah as her "unnecessaries".

You would need to check that out with Kelly. Clearly neither Jesus, nor Bahá’u’lláh are necessary to Kelly at this time in her life. Jesus is necessary to you. Both Jesus and Bahá’u’lláh are necessary to me.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Bahá’u’lláh has confirmed that the Greatest Name is “Bahá”.

As if his confirmation means anything to people other than Bahais.

That is basically a sales strategy to gain importance for himself and what he said to his ignorant Iranian audience. That is why Bahaullah took up this nick-name, otherwise his name was Ḥusayn-ʻAlí Núrí. His son took up the nick-name of Abdul-ul-Baha (Servant of Baha), though his actual name was Abbas.

 

[Jedster]

As if his confirmation means anything to people other than Bahais.

That is basically a sales strategy to gain importance for himself and what he said to his ignorant Iranian audience. That is why Bahaullah took up this nick-name, otherwise his name was Ḥusayn-ʻAlí Núrí. His son took up the nick-name of Abdul-ul-Baha (Servant of Baha), though his actual name was Abbas.

"The name of the game is the game of the name".....my conclusion after studying many belief systems

 

[Aupmanyav]

A useful document to consider Baha'u'llah's Revelation viewed from a twenty first century lens is 'One Common Faith' commissioned by the Baha'i World Centre.

That is where problems and conflicts come up. Either make it just universal love and peace, do not interject and remove Bahaullh and Bahai or any other religion in this. That will be acceptable. When you inject Bahaullah and Bahai religion in it, then it becomes a bone of contention. I do not know how you cannot understand this.

 

[Terry Sampson]

You would need to check that out with Kelly.

I did, indirectly, by looking at her "Information" in her profile page:

• 

Clearly neither Jesus, nor Bahá’u’lláh are necessary to Kelly at this time in her life.

Yep.

 

[Dawnofhope]

As if his confirmation means anything to people other than Bahais.

That is basically a sales strategy to gain importance for himself and what he said to his ignorant Iranian audience. That is why Bahaullah took up this nick-name, otherwise his name was Ḥusayn-ʻAlí Núrí. His son took up the nick-name of Abdul-ul-Baha (Servant of Baha), though his actual name was Abbas.

Actually it was the Bab who assigned Bahá’u’lláh His name during the conference of Badasht 1848.

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Dawn-Breakers: Nabíl’s Narrative of the Early Days of the Bahá’í Revelation, Pages 288-301

 

[Aupmanyav]

1. We believe that in the future people will all become part of one religion because God has ordained that, but that will not happen until people choose to relinquish their older religions. .. before the next Messenger of God comes and establishes a new religion.
2. Of course I understand the reasons why it seems insulting, but it cannot be avoided if a Baha’i is to be honest. From my point of view as a Baha’i,
3. There is no way around this conundrum except the Baha’i Faith because the Baha’i Faith is the only religion that allows for all the religions being the truth from God, each one revealed at various stages of mankind’s spiritual evolution, various chapters in the eternal religion of God.
4. Baha’u’llah wrote that God wants everyone to follow Him because the Baha’i Faith is the religion that has the remedy the world needs in this age and because that is the only way humanity can ever achieve world unity.

1. You believe in this. OK, then first relinquish your religion before you ask others to relinquish their religion. Funny people. Be first to do what you preach.
And then, the next messenger has already come (and gone), Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, just like Bahaullah. He established another religion, the Ahmadiyya religion. The world still remains unchanged. Basically, it is Allahs fault. He does not understand that sending prophets \ sons \ messengers \ manifestations \ mahdis is absolutely useless, it only increases strife in the world. What a dumb Allah!
2. You should be ashamed to have such a view that you cannot be a Bahai unless you insult other religions!
3. Bahai is not the latest religion. That distinction goes to the Ahmadiyyas.
4. No. After the advent of Mirza Ghulam ahmad, the latest messenger from Allah, you should be following the Ahmadiyya belief.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Actually it was the Bab who assigned Bahá’u’lláh His name during the conference of Badasht 1848.

Does that make any difference! They were art of the same group, assuming names of giving names.

 

[Dawnofhope]

That is where problems and conflicts come up. Either make it just universal love and peace, do not interject and remove Bahaullh and Bahai or any other religion in this. That will be acceptable. When you inject Bahaullah and Bahai religion in it, then it becomes a bone of contention. I do not know how you cannot understand this.

Please clarify what you are saying so I can better understand what you mean.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Does that make any difference! They were art of the same group, assuming names of giving names.

In my culture if one becomes a medical doctor or attains a PhD they are given the title Dr. similarly with qualifications in religious studies and becoming a priest or religious leader. In the eyes of the Bab some of the early Babis were accorded a rank that excelled a doctor or Priest. Many of those at the conference became martyrs and were put to death for their new faith.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I did, indirectly, by looking at her "Information" in her profile page:

• View attachment 35182

Yep.

As one who practiced psychiatry for a few years I came to appreciate how adverse childhood experiences may have a profound effect for better or worse.

 

[Aupmanyav]

One God \ Allah has never been One God \ Allah, he has always been multiple. The God of Jews, the God of Christians, the God of Muslims, the God of Bahais, the God of Ahmadiyyas. Good that Hinduism started with many Gods \ Goddesses - no conflict. Create compartments and create conflict.

 

[firedragon]

One God \ Allah has never been One God \ Allah, he has always been multiple. The God of Jews, the God of Christians, the God of Muslims, the God of Bahais, the God of Ahmadiyyas. Good that Hinduism started with many Gods \ Goddesses - no conflict. Create compartments and create conflict.

Thats a nonsensical statement brotherman. Even the statement "Allah has never been one god is nonsensical". I have not followed whatever debate you have been having here but i was not expecting such a sophomore statement from you. I dont mean any disrespect, just the statement doesnt make any sense.

 

[Trailblazer]

3. Bahai is not the latest religion. That distinction goes to the Ahmadiyyas.
4. No. After the advent of Mirza Ghulam ahmad, the latest messenger from Allah, you should be following the Ahmadiyya belief.

He is not a Messenger of God. Baha'u'llah said there could be no more Prophets for 1000 years so He is a lying imposter, Imv.

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies. Nay, rather follow the bidding of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Wise.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346

 

[Aupmanyav]

Each so-called prophet \ son \ messenger \ manifestation \ mahdi establishes a new religion, says that his is the latest or the last, finds faults in all other religions. Some say the proper name of their God is YHWH, others say it is God, still others say it is Allah \ Baha. They are ready to cut each others throat for difference in religion. How can, then, you say that they are talking about the same God \ Allah?

He is not a Messenger of God. Baha'u'llah said there could be no more Prophets for 1000 years so He is a lying imposter, Imv.

Muslims and Ahamdiyyas will say just the same for Bahaullah. Not just them, but Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians also will say just that. I have already shown in one post that this claim of messengers coming after 1,000 years is totally false. Was Jesus born a 1,000 years before Mohammad? Was Buddha born a 1,000 years before Jesus? You claim to consider the three as manifestations of Allah. And a prophet who claims false things is a lying imposter.

Bahais, "Truth Alone Wins, Not Untruth" (Satyam Eva Jayate, Na Anritam), that is what our books say.

 

[Aupmanyav]

If he claims to be better than any other Messenger that is another way we know he is a false messenger because no Messenger is better than any other Messenger, they just have different missions in every age.

Jews, Zoroastrians, Christians, Muslims, Ahmadiyyas, Hindus, Buddhists to not agree to your claim. They have messages which are sufficient for all ages. That is why they consider Bahaullah as a false prophet and an imposter.

 

[Vouthon]

Not particularly anywhere. Was just curious about your views. With the acceptance of Jesus as God, I see that you are a propah Christian.

Indeed

I subscribe to the doctrines laid out in the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene Creed (as do most Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox Christians).