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Is Procreation a Moral Imperative?

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
The first thing God commands his newly created humans in the Torah is, "Be fruitful and multiply."

Do you believe procreation is a moral imperative for us as human beings? Is it an imperative for each of us as individuals, or just broadly as a species? If it's a moral imperative for our species, at what point does that responsibility become individual? If a person chooses never to procreate, have they sinned? If a society does not procreate enough to replace themselves (as we see with a number of Western countries), are they morally failing as a group?
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
In my religion it is contended whether or not such a commandment is also applicable to Noahides. I know in Judaism it only applies to men. I believe from Isaiah that procreation is a mitzvah as the prophet says 'He formed the world to be inhabited.' As for it being 'moral', that I would doubt in the same way as it's not immoral to mix wool and linen or to eat treif, it's just not what G-d wants his people to do; there is no moral judgement attached.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
The first thing God commands his newly created humans in the Torah is, "Be fruitful and multiply."

Do you believe procreation is a moral imperative for us as human beings? Is it an imperative for each of us as individuals, or just broadly as a species? If it's a moral imperative for our species, at what point does that responsibility become individual? If a person chooses never to procreate, have they sinned? If a society does not procreate enough to replace themselves (as we see with a number of Western countries), are they morally failing as a group?

I think that in a society where the population is struggling to survive then probably yes. Humans aren't in that situation anymore so I don't think so.

Incels would say different though because they feel entitled to what they are impotent in getting.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
In my religion it is contended whether or not such a commandment is also applicable to Noahides. I know in Judaism it only applies to men.


Fascinating. But it takes two to tango, does it not? Odd that a command that requires two sexes would only apply to one.

As for it being 'moral', that I would doubt in the same way as it's not immoral to mix wool and linen or to eat treif, it's just not what G-d wants his people to do; there is no moral judgement attached.

In Judaism, if God commands you to do something, and you disobey, have you not morally failed?
 

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Fascinating. But it takes two to tango, does it not? Odd that a command that requires two sexes would only apply to one.
A woman can choose not to marry and have kids. A man is under obligation to do so unless he has a very good reason not to iirc. The idea is that most women want this too.

In Judaism, if God commands you to do something, and you disobey, have you not morally failed?
No, you've just disobeyed a commandment. Imagine if your teacher told you to complete an assignment for monday but you forgot and did it and brought it on tuesday. That's not a moral failing.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
opinions of mine follow and do not necessarily represent the perspectives of the christian broadcasting network
The first thing God commands his newly created humans in the Torah is, "Be fruitful and multiply."
The creation of humans is described twice and in two ways. There are books written on this, some authors believing that this is intended to describe either two aspects of humans or two kinds of humans or two layers etc.

It is my understanding that the difference in Genesis between people and beasts is our moral understanding. The second creation may refer to that. I'm not the last word on what it refers to.

Every creature is 'Commanded' to reproduce despite the fact that some cannot. For example sometimes people are infertile, so they can't do this. How can the command be intended to cover all circumstances? I think it is more like a description of the way things work, and in that sense only it is a command. The meaning of the word 'Torah' as I understand it is flexible enough to allow this usage. Math is a kind of Torah. In other words it could be less of a command and more like a manual or guideline. Reproduction has a purpose in other words, but since the creation of humans is described twice many infer there is more to this purpose for humans than there is for other creatures in the garden. Possible also the command is not simply to reproduce period but to reproduce good children, implying that moral quality matters.

Sometimes the NT writers refer to spiritual fruit, and by doing so they interpret Genesis to mean that reproduction may be spiritual. Example: If you influence others to become peacemakers then you're reproducing spiritually.

Do you believe procreation is a moral imperative for us as human beings?
Sometimes it is. Its when the world seems terrible that people are afraid to have children, but isn't that the time when good people ought to make children? It is sometimes an act requiring courage. Other times its not. How you rear children matters, too. If you're training them to be cruel then there's nothing moral about how many you have. To me this implies that if you have no clue how to rear children and just want them for someone to do your chores then maybe its not such a bad idea to wait...however this is not what Genesis implies.

Noah's parents according to the story only have him in order to have someone to do their chores, yet he turns out to be very important. Hmmm.

Is it an imperative for each of us as individuals, or just broadly as a species? If it's a moral imperative for our species, at what point does that responsibility become individual?
Individually. I think you weigh up what kind of offspring you'll have and make a good decision. For example if you have genes which produce madness, then maybe its not a good idea to reproduce. I think that the individual bears some responsibility for having children with at least the potential to be morally strong.

If a person chooses never to procreate, have they sinned? If a society does not procreate enough to replace themselves (as we see with a number of Western countries), are they morally failing as a group?
They have not necessarily sinned, but I think they should follow their conscience in the matter. Perhaps adoption is better, or perhaps its better if they don't go near children. It depends on the person, their ability, their failings. Do they have enough help? Is the kid going to be left in a cage all day?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
If anything, humans in this era have a "moral imperative" to stop procreating. The human species is overpopulated and the entire biosphere - humans included - are showing trademark signs of this. Human overpopulation is at the root of all of our majors problems - pandemics, economy, poverty, mass extinction, etc.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I think that in a society where the population is struggling to survive then probably yes. Humans aren't in that situation anymore so I don't think so.

Would you say that applies only to the species as a whole, or to individual groups, cultures, countries, etc?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The first thing God commands his newly created humans in the Torah is, "Be fruitful and multiply."If a society does not procreate enough to replace themselves (as we see with a number of Western countries), are they morally failing as a group?
Then why was he angry with Adam and eve? Nice of him to suggest that, but it it should depend on many things. For example what is the density of population in one's country? What is its level of economic prosperity? What is the income of the parents?
If a society does not procreate enough then it will be replaced by people from other regions. I am really concerned about low rate of procreation in West and Japan. I want them to prosper.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
The first thing God commands his newly created humans in the Torah is, "Be fruitful and multiply."
Yes, because there was only a handful of them and there was a whole planet to populate and explore

I believe that in this age, with 7.5 billion people (and growing) there is now a moral imperative to limit procreation and that this is probably what God wants too

However, I believe that End Times are imminent and if this is the case then we don't need to worry about over-population as the world is going to end
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
The first thing God commands his newly created humans in the Torah is, "Be fruitful and multiply."
Obviously, there was a reason to say that 6000 years ago, but there is no reason to say that now, given we have overpopulation and people are going hungry all over the world. :rolleyes:

This is an excellent example of how the injunctions in ancient scriptures no longer apply to the present age, in keeping with the Baha'i teaching of progressive revelation.
Do you believe procreation is a moral imperative for us as human beings? Is it an imperative for each of us as individuals, or just broadly as a species? If it's a moral imperative for our species, at what point does that responsibility become individual? If a person chooses never to procreate, have they sinned? If a society does not procreate enough to replace themselves (as we see with a number of Western countries), are they morally failing as a group?
Maybe procreation is a moral imperative for our species, so the species will not die out, but I do not think procreation is a individual responsibility. In fact, I think it is our responsibility not to have children if we know we are not qualified to be a parent. If one can just barely get by in life taking care of themselves, and/or if they have emotional problems that preclude being a good parent, it makes no sense to bring children into the world and I consider it immoral.

Baha'is are enjoined to marry and have children, but it is not a Law.

‘Marry, O people, that from you may appear he who will remember Me amongst My servants; this is one of My commandments unto you; obey it as an assistance to yourselves.
Bahá’u’lláh: Kitáb-i-Áqdás, p.41

1267.
"And this is what Bahá'u'lláh has encouraged the believers to do. But marriage is by no means an obligation. In the last resort it is for the individual to decide whether he wishes to lead a family life or live in a state of celibacy."Aug 28, 2015
Lights of Guidance/Laws of Marriage - Bahaiworks, a library of ...
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
However, I believe that End Times are imminent and if this is the case then we don't need to worry about over-population as the world is going to end
Where in the Bible does it say the world is going to end?
I believe that the translation 'end of the world' was in error, the proper translation is 'end of an age.'

I believe that the age of prophecy did end and we are living in a new age, the age of fulfillment. Just look around you at what is going on all over the world, everything is changing, and the Bible prophecies are starting to be fulfilled.

At any rate, I do not want to derail this thread, I just wanted to say that I do not believe the world is going to end.
 

QuestioningMind

Well-Known Member
Yes, because there was only a handful of them and there was a whole planet to populate and explore

I believe that in this age, with 7.5 billion people (and growing) there is now a moral imperative to limit procreation and that this is probably what God wants too

However, I believe that End Times are imminent and if this is the case then we don't need to worry about over-population as the world is going to end

However, I believe that End Times are imminent and if this is the case then we don't need to worry about over-population as the world is going to end

THIS is what scares me about religion more than anything else. It's the idea that as humans we don't have to 'worry' about over-population... climate change... nuclear weapons... pandemics... etc.... ALL because The END TIMES are imminent! It makes it SO much easier when you don't have to worry or take responsibility for fixing any of the problems we face. Instead we can just relax and wait for the end.

In this way I fear that religion will be the CAUSE of the worlds end.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
If people can't be responsible to raise children effectively they should NOT procreate.

There definetly needs to be newer generations, but over population is bad for everybody.

I think the concept of marriage and commitment should be firmly established and highly honored.

I don't believe people should be meaninglessly having sex and doing whatever they want when they want to.
There's a lot of grief that comes from that.

Some people have a moral imperative not to have children.

Some people are emotionally mature and well educated. Those people might have a moral imperative to procreate.

I believe there is a moral imperative that we all have to make sure all children grow up well.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
However, I believe that End Times are imminent and if this is the case then we don't need to worry about over-population as the world is going to end

THIS is what scares me about religion more than anything else. It's the idea that as humans we don't have to 'worry' about over-population... climate change... nuclear weapons... pandemics... etc.... ALL because The END TIMES are imminent! It makes it SO much easier when you don't have to worry or take responsibility for fixing any of the problems we face. Instead we can just relax and wait for the end.

In this way I fear that religion will be the CAUSE of the worlds end.
I said "if this is the case"

I'm hedging my bets re: the end of the world

I have many opinions and ideas about how we can improve our planet and have an interest in improving it

It's just that I feel strongly that we are approaching End Times

I am all for improving planet Earth - especially because I may be wrong about End Times :D

But if we were to learn that the world will end in say a week's time then there'd be no point in carrying on trying to improve it

That's what I was getting at
 
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