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Is Merit Based Hiring on the Way Out?

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Quetzal, Apr 19, 2019.

  1. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    I was a hiring manager in a couple of jobs during my career and the following are my personal observations.

    True. Job descriptions can be written in many ways, some of which are biased. During my years hiring programmers, we spoke of some as what would now be called "autism spectrum" people. If a job emphasized independent work, it would selectively appeal to people who prefer to work alone.

    As How to Make Job Descriptions Women-Friendly | GovLoop noted, "We work hard and play hard" implies that someone has to be "on the job" even when not working. "We emphasize family life balance" sends a different message.
     
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  2. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Qualifications is not a black/white question. There is group fit, technical knowledge, learning ability and trust to name just 4.

    When I hired people, we had the candidates in for a group interview. A qualification was that we all felt comfortable working with the person and believed that the new hire would not be disruptive.

    And when hiring someone, current knowledge had to be balanced against how someone learned new things. A technically less qualified person with great learning ability was a better hire than someone who knew quite a bit but had trouble as it became obsolete.

    And trust was a critical question. If I felt I could not trust someone, they were not hired.
     
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  3. Quetzal

    Quetzal A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
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    These are good points.
     
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  4. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    The biggest mistake I ever made hiring someone was a person who I thought was a bit like me but with less breaks in life. I thought I was giving him a chance. He was incompetent and could not pick things up quickly enough. So my bias was personal but it was still there and I only really understood it after I messed up.
     
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  5. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I think you are imagining a "radical left" based on a few lone opinions, and then using it to shore up your own cultural ideological peccadillo. People hire other people for lots of different reasons, all of which they would consider being of "merit" to them. That their reasons and their idea of merit do not align with yours is not relevant.
     
  6. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    They like hiring Asians, especially women, to work on submarines, building them. Easier for them to fit into smaller spaces. Is that racist?
     
  7. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    No body's perfect in hiring. We try to be unbiased, give everyone a chance but, we usually end up hiring non- america bone engineers. I think it's more a problem with the schools in America then the people themselves but you start looking for the the non-american educated folks cause they are more likely to have the skill set you are looking for, in certain jobs.
     
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  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Bokononist
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    The problem with asians is that they're over-represented in universities & STEM fields.
    So they must be excluded to some extent, lest they do too well, thereby keeping others down.
    Hey, don't blame me....I don't make the rules.
     
  9. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    Not really what I was talking about... but yes: hiring someone because he reminds you of yourself could easily be discriminatory.
     
  10. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    "Group fit" is often a codeword for discrimination.

    A candidate might not be a great fit socially with an existing team for reasons that have nothing to do with their ability or how well they'll perform in their job. Differences in age or cultural background can mean that the new person doesn't get the pop culture references of the existing staff. Someone whose first language isn't English might not get their co-worker's jokes.

    Terms like "group fit" can be used as cover for employers who haven't taken steps to make their workplaces inclusive.
     
  11. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    True, it can and sometimes is. In our case, it wasn't as we had men, women, whites, ethic minorities etc.

    And I'm reminded of a lesson I learned about how it sometimes can work in a positive way when I was interviewed for a job once. We met at a restaurant where the manager introduced me to his gay partner (and this was way before gay marriage, the closet was still pretty full) to see if I had a problem working for a gay guy. The conversation moved to the two of them wanting a kid with the help of a lesbian who would carry the baby and my asking about how they were going to decide which would be the sperm donor and how the legal aspects would be handled.

    (Job interviews can be fun!)
     
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