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Featured Is Magic(k) the Same As Enlightenment?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SalixIncendium, Jan 29, 2018.

?
  1. Yes

    1 vote(s)
    4.5%
  2. No

    19 vote(s)
    86.4%
  3. Other (explain below)

    2 vote(s)
    9.1%
  1. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    It was suggested in another thread that 'magic(k)' is a personal transformation and realization and is an aesthetic and word that means the same thing as 'enlightenment.'

    Agree? Disagree? Why?

    Edited for omission of the word 'and' between 'aesthetic' and 'word.'
     
    #1 SalixIncendium, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  2. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Yes.
     
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  3. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    We can perform magic without enlightenment.

    It is a personal choice in learning certain forms of magic(k) that personal transformation, and self realization occurs.
    On finding real enlightenment tho, the lores of magic no longer create boundaries.

    In my opinion.
    :innocent:
     
  4. Politesse

    Politesse Amor Vincit Omnia

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    Nope! Magick alters your relationship with the material world; enlightenment is an attempt to liberate oneself from it. Magick is a craft; enlightenment a state of mind.
     
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  5. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    As @Politesse said already.

    Magic at its foundation is an alteration of the physical world and if anything the only sort of magic in existence is prayer and the power that it does or does not hold. This is the essence of magic as it alters bends and contorts the world in a way that suits the practitioner or a way that suits the power/source of magic itself.
     
  6. Frater Sisyphus

    Frater Sisyphus Contradiction, irrationality and disorder

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    :rolleyes:

    No, there is no such thing as an "aesthetic word". The aesthetics of "magic" and the connotations of it are different to those of enlightenment but the aims are more often than not: the same.

    Of course, some people are superstitious about magic and use it to use it towards shallow gain or to attempt supernatural correspondence (which I don't personally believe exists) but the path and aim of positive personal transformation remains (hopefully) for any good magician.
     
  7. Frater Sisyphus

    Frater Sisyphus Contradiction, irrationality and disorder

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    Like making things float around in mid air? :grimacing:
     
  8. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    Care to explain the emote?

    Right. I omitted a word in the OP. I'll edit it. Good catch.
     
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  9. Frater Sisyphus

    Frater Sisyphus Contradiction, irrationality and disorder

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    Just a "I wonder what that could be" :D
     
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  10. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    Typically magic was used with the notion that a deity or spirit would help one get a woman. All of life tends to go back to some dude trying to get laid. Seem like a trend throughout human history :shrug:
     
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  11. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Enlightenment in its gross definition is a realization or a light bulb to any type of wisdom never before thought of. Magic is more your relationship with the physical and spiritual what we know already using means of prayer, communication, and ritual. You can be awakened to X and do magic in relation to your enlightenment. In other words, magic is an action and enlightenment can be a result of an action.
     
  12. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    What's enlightenment?
     
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  13. Frater Sisyphus

    Frater Sisyphus Contradiction, irrationality and disorder

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    That's what I'm wondering too now :laughing:
     
  14. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Magic is alteration of materiel reality by intangible or inexplicable means; effect without cause.
    Enlightenment is an expansion of consciousness; an alteration of brain chemistry or 'wiring'; a type of status epilepticus.

    Couldn't be more different.
     
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  15. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    one understands that one is eternal spiritual being as well as everyone else is the same spiritual being...
     
  16. Frater Sisyphus

    Frater Sisyphus Contradiction, irrationality and disorder

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    That is insanely accurate about almost anything :dizzy:
     
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  17. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Have you talked to anyone that does magick?

    Enlightened isn't a word I'd use to describe most of them, mostly they're into magick exactly because they are _not_ wise at all. Poor self-mastery, poor life choices, and taken to magick merely as a panacea for their own failings. In essence, it's usually a band aid over a broken consciousness... When you are truly enlightened and can do magick, more often than not you do not need magick because you preemptively avoided the problem in the first place. :D

    I've been spending much more time on my inner space and much less spinning spells, but I think that wisdom can come naturally if you simply seek it. In some ways, they are two sides of the same coin though - one is an external operation, one works internally to solve the same problems. However, there is nothing keeping you from keeping your cognitive self in the same rut for the rest of your life and continuing to band aid over the problems with magick practices. You will still get the problems over and over again, simply because you don't understand their origin. In most of this, I'm just speaking of my personal experience, of course. I had to paradigm shift a few times to get out of the human hamster wheel...
     
  18. Frater Sisyphus

    Frater Sisyphus Contradiction, irrationality and disorder

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    This is not wrong but it's also very exclusionary (probably out of convenience to the topic)

    Firstly I have no idea which branch of magic (obviously not illusionist stage magic :tearsofjoy:) that we are talking about - supernatural? psychological? - let alone the tradition in particular....but I'll proceed:

    I know it is certainly the case that some people use magick as a way of avoiding problems and covering up areas in their lives that are severely lacking but it's really not subject to simply just magick: religion itself is often used the same way, like alcohol is and drugs, so are relationships, sex, money, buying compulsions. These things in themselves aren't inherently bad (except buying compulsions) alone but it is the act which shapes the thought; If these things are being used to fill gaps of insecurities and are used as a crutch, it's clear that their place in that person's life will become toxic. It is easy to abuse something, especially with disingenuous intentions.

    Another downfall of using magic like that (especially for people who aren't socially or mentally stable), is that they can shut themselves out from the world by using it the way they are.

    Magick and religion should take action in a place of personal growth and in a way be an aid in striving to be the best person you can be. They're not the only ways to that but they are certainly there.

    You are also correct about the second bit, quite often there is no use for it: so you don't use it till it's relevant again to you. :)
     
  19. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    I said other because a Buddha is said to have certain abilities attained through complete and perfect enlightenment (anutara samyak sambodhi).

    The enlightened are said to be all-knowing, having knowledge of all phenomena and their workings. However, the abilities a Buddha has aren't to be bragged about, or made large of. The Buddha said a wise man doesn't make a big deal out of the abilities that may come with training the body and mind, or with enlightenment.

    I hesitate to use the word magic because people do like to brag about that, and use it for not so good reasons. A Buddha only uses the powers of the awakened dharma eye for one purpose: to save beings in suffering.
     
  20. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium सच्चितानन्द
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    I may as well throw my two cents in at this point...

    I voted no.

    My personal definitions of the terms have evolved over time through new understanding, but below are my most current ones.
    • Magic(k): the act of working with intent through mental or physical processes to bring about desired change.
    • Enlightenment: realization(s) through individual experience(s) of the true nature of existence.

    Personal definitions aside, what it boils down to is: magic(k) describes action through intent; enlightenment describes realization through experience.
     
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