Is Lying Unethical/Immoral?

[Heyo]

We all lie and I guess we can all agree that it is ethical to lie to prevent people from harm (like the now proverbial "lie to the GeStaPo to save Jews").
But we don't like being lied to most of the times. Many religions have commandments against lying; it is illegal to lie in certain circumstances.
In other circumstances it is allowed to lie, by religious people if lying is done to convert people, by law enforcement to get a confession.
You are expected to not believe what advertiser says or a politician on a rally. And, as this has inspired this OP, a pregnancy crisis centre is not expected to inform pregnant people correctly.

Where is your threshold?
Who do you expect to tell you the truth?
What do you want from the government done to shield you from being lied to?

 

[Secret Chief]

a pregnancy crisis centre is not expected to inform pregnant people correctly

I fear I'm going to regret finding out about this....

 

[Clara Tea]

We all lie and I guess we can all agree that it is ethical to lie to prevent people from harm (like the now proverbial "lie to the GeStaPo to save Jews").
But we don't like being lied to most of the times. Many religions have commandments against lying; it is illegal to lie in certain circumstances.
In other circumstances it is allowed to lie, by religious people if lying is done to convert people, by law enforcement to get a confession.
You are expected to not believe what advertiser says or a politician on a rally. And, as this has inspired this OP, a pregnancy crisis centre is not expected to inform pregnant people correctly.

Where is your threshold?
Who do you expect to tell you the truth?
What do you want from the government done to shield you from being lied to?

"Is lying immoral" No. (By which I mean yes).

 

[Heyo]

I fear I'm going to regret finding out about this....

It would be "forced speech" to require them to give accurate information:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/Docket...769_2018.03.13 NIFLAvB MERITS Reply Brief.pdf

 

[Hold]

We all lie and I guess we can all agree that it is ethical to lie to prevent people from harm (like the now proverbial "lie to the GeStaPo to save Jews").
But we don't like being lied to most of the times. Many religions have commandments against lying; it is illegal to lie in certain circumstances.
In other circumstances it is allowed to lie, by religious people if lying is done to convert people, by law enforcement to get a confession.
You are expected to not believe what advertiser says or a politician on a rally. And, as this has inspired this OP, a pregnancy crisis centre is not expected to inform pregnant people correctly.

Where is your threshold?
Who do you expect to tell you the truth?
What do you want from the government done to shield you from being lied to?

The threshold is lying to oneself.....

 

[Viker]

In many instances, unethical and illegal. I dunno bout immoral in most cases.

Fraud, perjury, lying to a spouse or business partner are the bad stuff.

Not lying to protect someone innocent is stupid and callous.

The police lying to get a confession seems like a grey area but it's often necessary and holds up in court.

The government and politicians lie to us constantly. It could be for national security or to cover up their b.s. the latter is a jerk move.

I think that some of the things we call lies aren't.

Sorry for the broken thoughts. Sleepy can't sleep.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well...I think that if one focuses on the common good, they will very seldom lie.
Lying in spite of the common good is immoral, IMHO.

Meaning that one has to be loyal to their own Fatherland and their own people. Which means, being faithful to the Nation first. Because in the French Revolution, the aristocracy was not on the Nation's side.

 

[joe1776]

...
Where is your threshold?

I can't comply with your request, Amigo. You are asking the impossible.

You are asking for a hard line to be drawn, an absolute moral rule to be created, that would guide one, without exception, to do the right thing. There is no act, lying or any other, that will allow that because moral dilemmas can easily be created to provide an exception.

For example, if I create the rule: KILLING INNOCENT CHILDREN IS ALWAYS WRONG, you might come back with "Suppose that child was dying of radiation poisoning. Would it not be moral for a doctor to perform a mercy killing to ease it's pain?

Each moral situation has to be judged on its own by that morally intuitive sense that we call 'conscience.' And my conscience tells me that I can't imagine a situation where an emergency crisis center would be justified in lying to a woman about her pregnancy. However, that might just be because my imagination is limited.

 

[MikeF]

We all lie and I guess we can all agree that it is ethical to lie to prevent people from harm (like the now proverbial "lie to the GeStaPo to save Jews").
But we don't like being lied to most of the times. Many religions have commandments against lying; it is illegal to lie in certain circumstances.
In other circumstances it is allowed to lie, by religious people if lying is done to convert people, by law enforcement to get a confession.
You are expected to not believe what advertiser says or a politician on a rally. And, as this has inspired this OP, a pregnancy crisis centre is not expected to inform pregnant people correctly.

Where is your threshold?
Who do you expect to tell you the truth?
What do you want from the government done to shield you from being lied to?

I would start by saying that lying, or untruths, or withholding all pertinent information (lying by omission) is definitely not a sin, as there is no such thing as sin in my opinion.

As mentioned by others, there is no hard line in the sense that all lying is wrong and all spoken truth a virtue. As with every human behavior that we regulate with rules, laws, social conventions, and taboos, we institute these to manage conflict between groups of 2 or more individuals. As a consequence, any rule or social convention about lying is going to be whatever we agree it should be. When and if we don't agree, there will be conflict.

I think the strength of any prohibition to lying is directly related to the potential harm of the lie.

 

[Heyo]

I would start by saying that lying, or untruths, or withholding all pertinent information (lying by omission) is definitely not a sin, as there is no such thing as sin in my opinion.

Neither in mine. But for the people of the book there is the 9th commandment that forbids slander, so that is one form of lying that would be recognized as sin in their eyes.

 

[MikeF]

Well...I think that if one focuses on the common good, they will very seldom lie.
Lying in spite of the common good is immoral, IMHO.

Meaning that one has to be loyal to their own Fatherland and their own people. Which means, being faithful to the Nation first. Because in the French Revolution, the aristocracy was not on the Nation's side.

You advocate tribalism then? Are we all not human beings though? Should we not wish prosperity and happiness for all of humanity, not simply our little group and to hell with the rest?

 

[joe1776]

...I think the strength of any prohibition to lying is directly related to the potential harm of the lie.

I'd say that: As a rule...an intentional act that causes harm to an innocent person is immoral.

 

[MikeF]

I'd say that: As a rule...an intentional act that causes harm to an innocent person is immoral.

Simplistic.

What of conflicting harms where a forced choice will result in harm to an innocent either way? The choice of lesser evil, if you will. Can causing harm to an innocent be deemed moral when more than just the harm to a particular innocent is considered?

 

[syo]

Lying is disgusting.

 

[MikeF]

Lying is disgusting.

Certainly can be. But always? What of the benevolent and harmless white lie?

 

[syo]

Certainly can be. But always? What of the benevolent and harmless white lie?

White lies are even worse. More disgusting.

 

[MikeF]

White lies are even worse. More disgusting.

Opinion noted. I don't see it as one that is universally held, however.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Thou shall not bear false witness.
Making up stuff is a sin.
Is there times when it's the lesser of two evils? Sure, but that's not the reason most people lie.
Most people just do it to make themselves look good. What would social media be if people didn't always present their best face, which is just another form of lying?

 

[MikeF]

Thou shall not bear false witness.
Making up stuff is a sin.
Is there times when it's the lesser of two evils? Sure, but that's not the reason most people lie.
Most people just do it to make themselves look good. What would social media be if people didn't always present their best face, which is just another form of lying?

When a lie *is* the lesser of two evils, is it still a sin in your view?

 

[Wildswanderer]

When a lie *is* the lesser of two evils, is it still a sin in your view?

Well I'm assuming you are thinking of something like saving someone's life by telling a lie.
I do not think in that particular situation lying would be a sin, but 99% of the time it is.