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Featured Is Love Ever a Kind of Enlightenment?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Sunstone, Mar 13, 2018.

  1. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    I have heard that "While some kinds of love are blind, there is more than one kind of love, and that one of the several kinds of love is more a matter of how you see someone, or of how you perceive them, than it is a matter of what you feel for them." Furthermore, loving someone in that way is both "unconditional" and "similar to being enlightened".

    Does that mean anything to you? Does it make any sense? Do you think it might be true? Why or why not?
     
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  2. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle I look up to you, but I look further
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    The love that comes from no barriers - the emotional kind - is probably the only one that I have experienced, apart from my obvious love for my mother and deep-felt regard for my closest friends. I am sure there are many others, but I have not experienced such, and it might be quite difficult to separate some from lust in its various forms. :rolleyes:
     
    #2 Mock Turtle, Mar 13, 2018
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  3. Frater Sisyphus

    Frater Sisyphus In The Circle Of Falsehood, Which Is Untrue

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    Aspect of, yes. Especially 'agape love', which I think is a byproduct of being in a state of attainment.

    Other types of love (including erotic and sexual) can be parts of the path but aren't usually the result (from my perspective).

    It's hard to pin down when you really think about it, for there are many, many types of love. Even love as an over-arching concept is too hard to pin down. But then maybe it is that unknowable (or hard-to-know/obtain) aspect that is the enlightened state we seek for? (aka agape)
     
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  4. Frater Sisyphus

    Frater Sisyphus In The Circle Of Falsehood, Which Is Untrue

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    I do believe that agape, or divine love - is one of the most powerful states a human can experience. But knowing the way a human functions, it certainly doesn't stay forever.
     
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  5. crossfire

    crossfire Antinomian feminist heretic freak ☿
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    I would say the The Four Immeasurables--loving-kindness, compassion, empathetic joy, and equanimity--would be present with enlightenment.
    Brahmavihara - Wikipedia
     
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  6. corynski

    corynski Reality First!
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    Yes, love is always an enlightenment!
     
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  7. Axe Elf

    Axe Elf Prophet

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    The enlightenment is when you realize that hate is not the opposite of love; selfishness is.
     
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  8. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    I think love is probably the most reflective of enlightenment of all emotional traits, depending if you mean non-romantic love in a agape sense. Love is an active dimension of interconnection.

    However, the reason it probably isn't good to call enlightenment itself love is because love is ultimately something done in the context of self/other.

    I love the Buddha, but if I were fully awakened as he was- there would be no Buddha to love, that I could distinguish as outside.
     
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  9. RoaringSilence

    RoaringSilence Active Member

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  10. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    [​IMG]
     
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  11. bobhikes

    bobhikes infinitologist
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    For me love is a binding arrangement; whereas, enlightenment is a release from bondage. Another way of putting it Love is a deep expression of your emotions and enlightenment is the understanding of emotions, reality and humanity.
     
  12. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle I look up to you, but I look further
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    I hope Deeje sees this. :D
     
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  13. Electra

    Electra l'attendue

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    The world is sex. The more we allow our selfs to mix, the more we realise we are the whole world. We have a relationship with everything around us.
     
  14. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    No, enlightenment is not describable in words other than in a metaphorical or poetic sense. It has more to do with a state of mind but transcends that even. The key thing you can see in an enlightened person is they do not toil on their emotions, treat friend and foe with equal consideration, and quite literally radiate peace and harmony.

    Love can occasionally be this way, but it can also be defined by a wants and desires list in the ego. That love isn't true, so to speak and it won't last - we all change, if the love is not coming from something beyond the emotions and mind those will shift and the love will fall apart. True love is love that is above all of this: personal desires, beyond reason, situations of life, and other considerations. You have it or you don't, basically. Any other sort of love isn't worth five minutes of this state.

    Can you have them both? Yes, you can. But, you don't get to pick in either case - they are there or they are not. :D
     
  15. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle I look up to you, but I look further
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    Have you actually experienced any particular love - for another individual, for example?

    And again, have you experienced this - and what were the differences felt?
     
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  16. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member

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    imo, agape is a side effect of the process of enlightenment. It is state of being, "love" is not exact translation of "agape", a better world would be "care". A state of benevolence.
     
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  17. Aiviu

    Aiviu Active Member

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    Love needed an instance that we should be enlighted of its power onto us and its will within our self which equals our only rightful will.

    Love doesnt have any others kinds of love. Whatever path man choose he will be enlighted onto it. Wether he'll accept that his thoughts, desires, and deeds lied about Love or not.
     
  18. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    It's pretty pointless to describe it as it would be similar to a spiritual experience. In my case, I really was looking for no one and found it. I've been married to her for 20 years of my life, and I was only 22 when I married. I have absolutely no regrets of that decision. I'm not interested in other women nor even attracted to them at all in that way. :D However, there was nothing different from her than many other of my friends (female included) that you could pin that on. There was just something else beyond all of that, something impossible to ignore.

    I've had all the other 'love''s before (infatuations, sexual, etc.), none of them compare to that. That true love type of experience is transforming and neither of you can stand to be apart. There was nothing special about our mutual interests even though we had a lot of them, and both had things going on that the other person had no calling to as well. I've changed greatly as a person since that time and so has she. If I merely was using a shopping list of what I thought was important in a relationship nothing on that list would matter now. Neither of us are the same (not even spiritually), we still are together, so it has to be bigger than that to be 'real'. This is probably why divorce rates are so high - people fall in love with criteria rather than the fundamental being of the person. That person will change, and they will break up. Most of the time, when we were dating I just came to be with her - we had no plans at all, and that was just fine. It often took me hours to get to her place, and I'd go rain, snow, or shine. I'd often have to wait 2 hours for a bus service to start in a bad neighborhood - I had no concern at all of myself or what I wanted, she expected me and that meant I was there. Hell or high water.
     
  19. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle I look up to you, but I look further
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    Thank you. Like many, I am sure you were lucky to find the right person. I experienced love at a much older age, not unfortunately leading to where I might have been as happy as yourself, but I recognised that earlier relationships did lack this and perhaps why they never materialised into any lasting relationships.

    I just wonder how a spiritual experience compares.
     
  20. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    I've had ego-death spiritual experiences before and there is only a comparison in terms of the "love" component. But, it's not like and like, it's so much more than that. It took me nearly ten years of my life to accept what had occurred (mostly due to my religious upbringing and interests), and about another ten to find the words to describe it. You're literally talking about the type of experience that causes people to become saints and the like it isn't in the purview of the self-absorbed existence that many live in day to day. I could tell you basically how to have one of these experiences, but it is difficult:

    1) Become selfless, in every sense of that word. I was naturally predisposed to this, I can imagine this being harder for others.

    2) Reject your own mental meanderings and realize they are convenient lies. You must detach from this to pay attention to the now. The less you live in the now the harder these experiences are.

    3) Meditate a lot, but with awareness. You aren't looking to meditate on a thing, but rather the absence of things. Blank piece of paper... You will see visions, hear sounds, feel like something touched you, etc.. IGNORE. You must be detached from them or that is where you will stay.

    After years of that (or less, if you are diligent), you will have a bonafide ego-death experience. You will never look at the world the same way again. Of course, you're free to keep doing as you want to. I just illustrated it here to explain how difficult the first few stages are. You will know things like what God really is, etc. Explaining it is useless really, no one here would believe you anyway unless they had the same experiences. :D
     
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