Is living forever a fate worse than death?

[Shadow Wolf]

It would be fantastic until you're the last one left alive.

 

[wandering peacefully]

I am not big on the idea of living forever in some strange dimension, but I would like to pass along what my husband always says when I complain about the afterlife.
If God created a spiritual world in which we will live forever, we should not throw that back at Him and say He made a mistake, not anymore than we should shun this earthly life that God created for us. My husband considers that sacrilegious.

Just remember one thing; our beliefs or non-beliefs do not create reality, so if there IS an afterlife you will have one whether you like it or not... That is straight from my husband.
But if it makes you feel better NOT to believe in an afterlife, I see no harm in that, not anymore than there is any harm to believers who believe in an afterlife, as long as it does not take them away from what they need to do in this life. It is kind of like the person who looks forward to going to Europe someday, even though they may or may not ever be able to go to Europe.

Too funny. Just remember, our beliefs don't make reality. If there isn't a god or an afterlife, you won't live for eternity. You'll just die like every other carbon based life form on this planet. And you will have spent a whole lot of time and energy thinking about nothing.

It hasn't a thing to do with "feeling better" not to believe in an afterlife. It is just too far fetched a story to even consider it as a serious option to being dead.

Why would anyone want to live for eternity anyway? I spend that extra time some might spend on longing for and making up stories about living after they die, just enjoying the actual life I do have.

And if I die and there is a God who told me I have to live forever doing whatever it is people imagine they are going to be doing forever, I'd tell him thanks but no thanks.

 

[Trailblazer]

I can appreciate that reports of NDE's might be a swaying factor for you. However, in that I have experienced hallucinations that cannot be distinguished from reality, I'm hyper aware of just capable the human mind is of deluding itself. So the idea that the human brain might create elaborate hallucinations when a person is near death doesn't surprise me in the least.

I suppose that is possible, but because there are so many NDEs that all have common themes running throughout them, this seems highly unlikely.

The other thing is that there is evidence that the mind was not functioning at the time the person had the NDE.

AFTERLIFE SCIENCES
Presented by Victor and Wendy Zammit
New Book: A Lawyer Presents the Evidence for the Afterlife

An introduction to the evidence for the afterlife - with links to just a few of the fascinating videos and audios available.

The Evidence for Life After Death

 

[QuestioningMind]

I suppose that is possible, but because there are so many NDEs that all have common themes running throughout them, this seems highly unlikely.

The other thing is that there is evidence that the mind was not functioning at the time the person had the NDE.

AFTERLIFE SCIENCES
Presented by Victor and Wendy Zammit
New Book: A Lawyer Presents the Evidence for the Afterlife

An introduction to the evidence for the afterlife - with links to just a few of the fascinating videos and audios available.

The Evidence for Life After Death

I suppose that is possible, but because there are so many NDEs that all have common themes running throughout them, this seems highly unlikely.

Personally, I think that it would be expected. People share common ideas on what the afterlife will be like and most have probably heard about other people's so called NDE's, so I don't find it surprising that people would have similar hallucinations. Kind of like how after the movie Close Encounters came out, suddenly most of the people who claimed to have been abducted started describing the aliens as skinny, grey, with large heads and big black eyes.

The other thing is that there is evidence that the mind was not functioning at the time the person had the NDE.

True, there may have been no evidence that the brain was functioning - BASED UPON OUR CURRENT ABILITY TO MEASURE BRAIN FUNCTIONS. But the reality is that much of the brain remains a mystery to us and we can't say with any certainty exactly when the brain stops functioning. It wasn't too terribly long ago that we considered someone to be dead when their heart stopped beating. So it's quite possible that at some point in the future when brain activity can be
more accurately measured that what is considered to be 'brain dead' today may not be what we consider to be 'brain dead' a few decades from now.

I confess that I haven't looked at the link you provided thoroughly, but after a quick scan, what I came away with were lots of fantastical claims, but little to no actual evidence. Sadly self-proclaimed mediums have been scamming people for centuries. Frauds like John Edwards and Silvia Browne have been exposed; yet they still have lots of gullible followers.

 

[Trailblazer]

Too funny. Just remember, our beliefs don't make reality. If there isn't a god or an afterlife, you won't live for eternity. You'll just die like every other carbon based life form on this planet. And you will have spent a whole lot of time and energy thinking about nothing.

You are right about that. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

It hasn't a thing to do with "feeling better" not to believe in an afterlife. It is just too far fetched a story to even consider it as a serious option to being dead.

It seems far fetched to you because you have a certain bias against the possibility of it existing, but it is not far fetched to me because I have a bias in the other direction. Why is it do you think that most people believe there is an afterlife? Probably because most people also believe in God, which is also a far fetched idea to you. That seems as odd to me as my beliefs seem odd to you. As far as I am concerned, it is a given that there is a God and an afterlife, but then I have been a Baha'i since I was 17 years old, and that is a long time.

Why would anyone want to live for eternity anyway? I spend that extra time some might spend on longing for and making up stories about living after they die, just enjoying the actual life I do have.

It is not an either/or, choosing between this life or the next life. Most Baha'is I know hardly ever think and talk about the afterlife, they are far too busy doing what they do in this life, including friends and family and enjoying life.

I am kind of different from most Baha'is because I have a rather serious bent, although I also have a lighthearted side to me. So I am both serious and lighthearted with regard to the afterlife. I have always been serious person; before coming back to God and the Baha'i Faith about six years ago, I was into academia for over 15 years and I was serious about my education. I had no lighthearted side back then, it was all work and no play, but now that I am talking about God and afterlife stuff it is kind of fun.

I do not know why people want to live for eternity, I guess because they do not want to not exist after they die, and most believers also believe it will be like paradise or heaven for eternity. What most believers do not seem to wonder about is what they will be doing for eternity or what they will do if it does not turn out to be what they had hoped for. By contrast, I do think of these things. I learned to be very thorough during all those years of college.

And if I die and there is a God who told me I have to live forever doing whatever it is people imagine they are going to be doing forever, I'd tell him thanks but no thanks.

If you die and there is an afterlife you won't be able to do anything about it because you won't be able to kill yourself, so you will just have to buckle up and enjoy the ride. Who knows, it might be better than you think. That is not only what religion says, it is also what all the spirit communicators say. If you lived a good life it should be okay. It is the people who did evil deeds like murder that have something to worry about.

Just for fun, you might want to take a gander at these two books. The first one is available to read online and the second one has to be ordered from Amazon, but you can read inside it to find out what it is about.

• Private Dowding
• The Afterlife Revealed

 

[David T]

Weither religious or not, what would be the repercussions be if immortality was possible?

Would it be great, or a waking nightmare?

Is Silicon Valley's quest for immortality a fate worse than death?

I am waiting for a tardis. Way easier functional technology !!!

 

[wandering peacefully]

You are right about that. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

It seems far fetched to you because you have a certain bias against the possibility of it existing, but it is not far fetched to me because I have a bias in the other direction. Why is it do you think that most people believe there is an afterlife? Probably because most people also believe in God, which is also a far fetched idea to you. That seems as odd to me as my beliefs seem odd to you. As far as I am concerned, it is a given that there is a God and an afterlife, but then I have been a Baha'i since I was 17 years old, and that is a long time.

It is not an either/or, choosing between this life or the next life. Most Baha'is I know hardly ever think and talk about the afterlife, they are far too busy doing what they do in this life, including friends and family and enjoying life.

I am kind of different from most Baha'is because I have a rather serious bent, although I also have a lighthearted side to me. So I am both serious and lighthearted with regard to the afterlife. I have always been serious person; before coming back to God and the Baha'i Faith about six years ago, I was into academia for over 15 years and I was serious about my education. I had no lighthearted side back then, it was all work and no play, but now that I am talking about God and afterlife stuff it is kind of fun.

I do not know why people want to live for eternity, I guess because they do not want to not exist after they die, and most believers also believe it will be like paradise or heaven for eternity. What most believers do not seem to wonder about is what they will be doing for eternity or what they will do if it does not turn out to be what they had hoped for. By contrast, I do think of these things. I learned to be very thorough during all those years of college.

If you die and there is an afterlife you won't be able to do anything about it because you won't be able to kill yourself, so you will just have to buckle up and enjoy the ride. Who knows, it might be better than you think. That is not only what religion says, it is also what all the spirit communicators say. If you lived a good life it should be okay. It is the people who did evil deeds like murder that have something to worry about.

Just for fun, you might want to take a gander at these two books. The first one is available to read online and the second one has to be ordered from Amazon, but you can read inside it to find out what it is about.

• Private Dowding
• The Afterlife Revealed

I'll take a look at the links if I can. As for the rest of the god talk; assumptions, wags, and wishful thinking of daydreamers, or frauds I'm afraid. But glad you find comfort in it anyway as many do. Just because many people might believe in the same idea or belief doesn't make a bit of it true however. Humans have been known to be wrong about a lot of things. I would say we will all find out one day, but I don't believe that either. Dead people don't know anything.

 

[Trailblazer]

Personally, I think that it would be expected. People share common ideas on what the afterlife will be like and most have probably heard about other people's so called NDE's, so I don't find it surprising that people would have similar hallucinations. Kind of like how after the movie Close Encounters came out, suddenly most of the people who claimed to have been abducted started describing the aliens as skinny, grey, with large heads and big black eyes.

If it was a hallucination it could be that people have similar experiencesowing to the power of suggestion, but if it was a genuine spiritual experience, it could be that the soul of the majority of people, right after it leaves the body, has a positive experience because most people are good people. What you do not normally hear about are the hellish NDEs, but they do exist. However, most people do not want to talk about them, maybe because of the shame for having such an experience, or maybe because they do not want to frighten other people.

True, there may have been no evidence that the brain was functioning - BASED UPON OUR CURRENT ABILITY TO MEASURE BRAIN FUNCTIONS. But the reality is that much of the brain remains a mystery to us and we can't say with any certainty exactly when the brain stops functioning. It wasn't too terribly long ago that we considered someone to be dead when their heart stopped beating. So it's quite possible that at some point in the future when brain activity can be
more accurately measured that what is considered to be 'brain dead' today may not be what we consider to be 'brain dead' a few decades from now.

That is true, science has not determined exactly when the brain has stopped functioning entirely. There may not be a clear line of demarcation between alive and dead, but rather brain death might be a process that happens gradually. But there is a point at which the brain is completely dead and then the person cannot come back to life. This could correlate with what people describe in the NDES, that at a certain point in time they have to decide if they want to cross over to the spiritual world or come back to this world.Once they make the decision to continue on they cannot come back to this life, and at the point they would be fully dead.

One thing I find interesting is that when people have these NDEs they remember seeing things that happened as in surgery that they would have had no way to know if they had been fully unconscious. So at the very least they were outside of their bodies looking down. That proves that OBEs are possible even if it does not prove there is an afterlife in a spiritual world.

Nevertheless, I do not think NDEs are an accurate source of information regarding what the spiritual world will be like because those people were not fully dead; even if they were fully dead for a few seconds or minutes they would not have long enough to see what is in the spiritual world.

I confess that I haven't looked at the link you provided thoroughly, but after a quick scan, what I came away with were lots of fantastical claims, but little to no actual evidence. Sadly self-proclaimed mediums have been scamming people for centuries. Frauds like John Edwards and Silvia Browne have been exposed; yet they still have lots of gullible followers.

Indeed, many mediums are frauds, but that does not mean that some of them are not genuine. It is difficult for me to believe that people are fooled by those such as John Edwards and Silvia Browne because they have obvious financial motives but many people are desperate and these frauds prey on these people.

I have not looked at anything on that link either. I saw it posted by George-ananda, and I plan to look at it later.

I am much more interested in what happens after we are fully dead and living in the spiritual world than I am in NDEs. There are three books I have read wherein mediums have communicated to spirits in the spiritual world and they describe their experiences. Although it is really impossible to describe a world that is very different as from the world we know, it gives us some idea what to expect. The first two books are not based upon any religion, but the third book was written by a Christian, although he was one who broke away from the Church, so he did not adhere to Christian doctrines.

1. Private Dowding
2. The Afterlife Revealed
3. Heaven and Hell

 

[Trailblazer]

I'll take a look at the links if I can. As for the rest of the god talk; assumptions, wags, and wishful thinking of daydreamers, or frauds I'm afraid. But glad you find comfort in it anyway as many do. Just because many people might believe in the same idea or belief doesn't make a bit of it true however. Humans have been known to be wrong about a lot of things. I would say we will all find out one day, but I don't believe that either. Dead people don't know anything.

I do not really find “comfort” in my beliefs; but the teachings give my life meaning, purpose, and direction.

If we are going to be logical we must apply logic; so conversely, just because many people might disbelieve in the same idea or non-belief doesn't make a bit of it true. Certainly humans have been known to be wrong about a lot of things, so it is all really a matter of who is wrong. We just do not know, and that is why it is called a belief.

I believe we will know after we die, but what we will know, and who will know or not know is a mystery. We believers who led a good life will not be any worse off for it, if we end up being dead, but if we are not dead, we are going to have an edge because we knew and made certain preparations.

I did not like religion and I liked God even less for most of my life, so for all intents and purposes I already lived most of my life as a nonbeliever, even though I was a believer who had a religion. So I did not miss out on anything I otherwise would have done, had I not believed in God.

I still don’t miss out because there is nothing I could not do if I wanted to do it, just because I am a Baha’i. What my religion has changed in my life is my attitude towards other people and how I treat them, with dignity, respect, equity and justice. Many people do not need to believe in God or a religion for right living, but some of us do, given we did not get a great start in life.

 

[Nimos]

Only for the rich. I can imagine how powerful some would become if they could live forever.

Being rich would only matter for a very short period of time. If we were immortal or lived for ever space travel would be extremely easy compared to now, as time wouldn't matter as much anymore. So suddenly you have a whole galaxy or potential universe to explore, so resources would be worth nothing as we would have more than we could ever need or collect. So most likely the whole world would change into that of science and life enhancing development so we could achieve as much pleasure and entertainment as possible

Now where do I sign up for this?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Weither religious or not, what would be the repercussions be if immortality was possible?

Would it be great, or a waking nightmare?

Is Silicon Valley's quest for immortality a fate worse than death?

It would be great! People talk about repetition...yeah, every 25 to 30 years, I'd get to meet the next generation of my offspring! And every so often, having new kids, myself!!

(Of course, at some future time, I expect / hope there will be advanced technology providing instantaneous interstellar travel to other worlds! With the whole world at peace, ie., global cooperation, and everyone being "taught by Jehovah" (Isaiah 54:13), mankind's learning curve and advancement will be staggering! IMO.)

 

[JJ50]

I have no interest in living forever, when I die I hope that is it, end of story.

 

[Nimos]

I have no interest in living forever, when I die I hope that is it, end of story.

But you could travel all over the universe? If that and all the technology that would automatically come with living forever, you could have new exciting entertainment each day. If you think you need a break or rest just have doctors put you in a coma or sleep for 50 years and when you wake up its a whole new universe to explorer. Even if its expanding forever, with all the resources we could harvest, we could make our own artificial one .

 

[Trailblazer]

I have no interest in living forever, when I die I hope that is it, end of story.

Why is that? Is it because this life has been so bad that you cannot imagine something better, or is it because you would not want to live FOREVER no matter how great that life is? Or are you worried you might get bored eventually?

 

[JJ50]

Why is that? Is it because this life has been so bad that you cannot imagine something better, or is it because you would not want to live FOREVER no matter how great that life is? Or are you worried you might get bored eventually?

Like most people life has had its ups and downs, but on the whole I consider I have been very fortunate compared to many others. I have a wonderful family and we are reasonably comfortable financially. However, been there done that, got the T shirt, end of story.

 

[Trailblazer]

Like most people life has had its ups and downs, but on the whole I consider I have been very fortunate compared to many others. I have a wonderful family and we are reasonably comfortable financially. However, been there done that, got the T shirt, end of story.

I am glad to hear you have been that fortunate. Not all of us have been that fortunate. I am very well off financially but I have endured a lot of suffering and I never had a family, although I do have a husband. I really have nothing to complain about now except that my life is very stressful.

Raising a family and attaining financial stability have their place in this life but once that is accomplished, then what? If that is all we lived for, and we know of nothing that exists other than this material world, then when it comes to an end there will be nothing to look forward to. In that case, I can certainly understand why someone would not want to go on to an afterlife. It is a whole different ball game, and not one any of us are familiar with.