1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is Jesus The Only Way To Heaven?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by JesusIsTheWay, Apr 6, 2005.

?
  1. Yes!

    37 vote(s)
    32.2%
  2. No!

    52 vote(s)
    45.2%
  3. I don't know.

    8 vote(s)
    7.0%
  4. There is no Heaven.

    18 vote(s)
    15.7%
  1. Faminedynasty

    Faminedynasty Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    349
    Ratings:
    +89
    In regards to the first point, if we ALL inherently deserve hell, then God is responsible for the design flaw and he, and not us, should be held accountable. Overthrown and replaced by a more decent God who will produce a model of man who is not so terrible at birth so as to deserve eternal damnation in hellfire and suffering.
    In regards to the aggressive spread of Christianity, I understand that you think that all of us who do not conform to your culture are damned to hell, where our children will be burned alive forever and impaled on spikes because we did not think exactly like you, but, if your assumption that God forgives the innocent, if they do not know about Christ, then I would submit that the "blood" is on the hands of the Christians who so disrespectfully told us that our culture was crap, our beliefs a lie and our ancestors in hell, that we would never listen to them. It would have been better to let us never know about Christ, so the innocent would be saved. Now, thanks to the crusaders and bike riding mormons all those decent enough to have self-respect are damned to hell.
    Finally, I will never buy the notion that Jesus absorbed your sins and that if you accept him you are free to live as despicable and amoral life as you wish without consequence. But I do believe that is a big reason why Christianity has spread so rapidly, and also why a religion founded by a man who would die before resorting to violence, a man who dedicated his life to love and the poor, has become a religion/political ideology based on warfare, killing, and hatred for the poor.
    I will conclude by saying that I can't imagine why so many christians have such a low opinion of God. What they describe as his means of selecting those who get into heaven is simply bigotry. And I refuse to believe that God is a bigot. Besides, if he is, I want nothing to do with him. And to my mind, a Buddhist who understands the peace, love and compassion with which Christ lives, and lives as such, is closer to Christ than a "Christian" who lives a life of hate and thinks he is forgiven simply by invoking Christ's name.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    500
    Ratings:
    +60
    Mankind inherently deserves hell thanks to itself, It was mankind that choose to go their own way and they were warned befor they choose. God is not responsible, he gave us freewill and we choose to rebel against him therefor he has full right to hold mankind accountable. He gave us 1 rule at the start just 1, God didnt want a group of robots(no freewill) to worship and honor him, if mankind couldnt choose an alternative then it isnt real worship and honor is it, hence their one rule. What are you choosing with your freewill?


    People arnt damed to hell on behalf of others God will judge you according to what you have done!
    Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Galatians 6:7

    If you are damned to hell its because of your own sin not because you havnt heard of Jesus.

    Good the bible never says thats how it works.

    If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Hebrews 10:26-27

    If you havnt taken what Jesus did for you seriously then you will just use him like insurance to get into heaven, God knows our hearts and if we have truly repented. Once again
    Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. Galatians 6:7


    You should keep in mind that not all who claim to be a christian really are, do you think God is fooled? Why would you judge a religion by those who live contradictory to it just because they claim to belong to it?

    God didnt have to provide a way out for mankind remember mankind rebeled against him, what does he owe mankind? but he did because of his love, he wouldnt have gone through what he did if it wasnt for love.
    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

    This is why some people are so passionate about the gospel, why some people try to tell everyone about this great news for mankind, why some are over in other countries as missionaries etc, their love compels them to spread the gospel so that as many as will listen will except what God has done to allow us to be reconciled. You yourself have obvioulsy heard the gospel, if you are really so concerned about all those who havnt how bout you go and share it? Oh thats right because many people havnt heard it so it musnt be true.
     
  3. scitsofreaky

    scitsofreaky Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    306
    Ratings:
    +33
    Yet someone else can pay our debts. Doesn't this seem inconsistent?
    Well then, it isn't free is it? Also, for us to follow "His will," we have to reject ourselves and our humanity, which is a very steep price to pay, and odd considering that God made us each individually.
    Also, do you believe Jesus to be God? If so, doesn't that mean that Jesus' death was pointless because then God would be paying a debt owed to Himself. It would be as if you owed me money, so to forgive you, I took money out of my account, gave it to myself, and then said that your debt is payed as long as you did what I said for the rest of your life.
     
  4. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2005
    Messages:
    500
    Ratings:
    +60
    No this is a theme of the whole bible, in the OT animals were sacrificed for sin as a forshadow of what was to come. It is God who chooses how to punish our sin and if he is Just then he will make sure it is punished, if he is willing to become a man and go through what he did in order to satisfy his own justice then so be it, I thank God that i dont have too face his wrath and anger at my sin.
    When Jesus was beaten and flogged then crucified this was the way he paid for our sins. Is it not ok for God to choose the punishment? What Christ went through was not pleasant. And after he had been through all this torture his final words were - "It is finished." He had paid the debt that we owed and bought our freedom with his blood.

    Well it is and it isnt :), It is a free gift in that God didnt have to offer us salvation he did though as a free gift, we didnt deserve it, but your right in that it does come at a price if we chose to except this gift. Im not sure what you mean by reject our humanity though. My life has only been better since excepting Jesus as my saviour.

    I do belive Jesus to be God but this dosnt make his death pointless though, God throughout the bible has said that sin will be punished etc, so he will make sure its punished.
    Imagine a judge and then a criminal comes befor him and its a family member someone the judge really loves, now the judge must still see to it that justice is served so he fines the criminal. Then he takes of his judge uniform walks over to the criminal/family menber and hands him the money, it came out of the judges own pocket and justice was served. Jesus still has the nail holes in his hands. It did cost him but he did it out of love.
    Also whats so wrong with the requests made of you after you except this gift? You are expected to clean up your life, stay away from that which hurts you and others, Jesus summed up the commandments into 2, Love God with all that you are (isnt hard when you think about what he has done for you) and to Love your neighbour like yourself. Why do you have a problem with that?
     
  5. scitsofreaky

    scitsofreaky Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2005
    Messages:
    306
    Ratings:
    +33
    It is inconsistent with "reap what you sow."
     
  6. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,759
    Ratings:
    +1,039
    That's not a choice.. that's a carrot at the end of a stick.
     
  7. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    3,261
    Ratings:
    +559
    You can look at it that way...but you still have a choice. Take what is offered....or reject it.
     
  8. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    13,000
    Ratings:
    +1,057
    I understood it to be the grace of God
     
  9. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    9,486
    Ratings:
    +922
    The Righteous of all nations shall have a place in the World to Come:162:
     
  10. painted wolf

    painted wolf Grey Muzzle

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    15,369
    Ratings:
    +1,653
    Why would Creator make the fate of my people dependant on a man who lived thousands of years and thousands of miles apart from us?

    Why would Creator condemn all the millions of people who lived in times and places apart from Jesus?

    Creator in my faith sets up no tests and tricks to getting back to him. Everyone has the same potential to find thier way.
    We need no 'savior' or mediator.

    wa:do
     
  11. JesusIsTheWay

    JesusIsTheWay Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Messages:
    73
    Ratings:
    +5
    Because Jesus was God and He paid for our sins. "For the wages of sin is death" Somebody must pay the price. God has His perfect standard for humanity, and He decided to send His Son, Jesus Christ to die for our sins and take the punishment that we deserve. Then when we accept Him as our Savior and Lord, He sends His Spirt (the Holy Spirit) to dwell in us. So He lives in us, how much closer can you get?

    He doesn't, didn't and will never. We condemn ourselves by not believing in Jesus. "God sent His Son in the world not to condemn it, but to save it!"

    Same as in mine. God has no favorites we all have the same oppertunity. "All who call on the name of the Lord will be saved" God gives it to us straight up, accept Jesus or not. There is no "tests and tricks to getting back to him".

    P.S. I have Cherokee blood in me too, as well as some other Native American tribes.

    Have a good day\night
    - David
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Jaymes

    Jaymes The cake is a lie

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,759
    Ratings:
    +1,039
    I really don't understand why people say that God gave his only son to die for us... he didn't give anything. He got back what was his. That's not really a sacrifice.
     
  13. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    If you understood it, you wouldn't have posed it as you did.

    Jesus and God had a PERFECT union. No, we really can't understand that since none of us have everhad anything close to that. So God sent Jesus and Jesus humbled himself. He went through the pain and agony of dealing with non-believing humans and then through the pain and agony of dying on a cross. However, this was incredibly minor in coparison to the seperation that occurred when Jesus became sin. It's one of the few passages that the Apostles never translated, but choose to transcribe his actual words.

    He did all this, knowing full well that most would mock him, his sacrifice and his followers. He counted it pure joy at that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2004
    Messages:
    28,667
    Ratings:
    +2,656
    Net Doc, I'm ignorant of 'Jesus becomming sin' why' where and how ?:)
     
  15. angellous_evangellous

    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes, this is a most interesting question. If you want the heaven which Jesus describes, then He is the only way. If you want to make up your own ideas about heaven, then you get to make up the way. Whether or not you are correct is another question entirely.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Alien_Youth

    Alien_Youth Soldier in God's army

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Messages:
    35
    Ratings:
    +8
    I feel that if you are going to the heaven Jesus describes and preaches about then He is the ONLY way. however some people are deeply faithful to God without asking Jesus into their hearts and I feel that they would get into heaven as well

    God Bless,

    Alien Youth
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Messages:
    16,472
    Ratings:
    +3,192
    Religion:
    Christian Taoist
    II Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

    It happened here:

    Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

    God, who can not be with sin, turned his head away from his son. Their perfect, eternal union had been severed.
     
  18. ayani

    ayani member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    5,767
    Ratings:
    +748
    the Quaker view on the divinity and role of Jesus is pretty diverse.... some of us believe that he was the son of God, and that following his teachings and believing in him is the only way to heaven.
    others see him more as a spiritual role-model, but not divine. while others do not emphasize the person of Jesus in their spiritual lives.

    the emphasis in liberal Quakerism (my branch) is generallyon the individual worshiper's spiritual experiences, less on what is traditionally accepted as sources of religious law and inspiration (e.g. The Bible). some early Quakers understood these spiritual experiences as more authorotative than the Bible to the extent that they burned their Bibles in protest of religious traditions.

    similar sentiments were held about the traditional christian view of Jesus, as the only way, as divine, etc.

    i personally don't have a view either way. while many Quakers in my meeting identify as Christian, i do not. therefor the person of Jesus does not have a central role in my spiritual life. however, i recognise the importance of many of his teachings to Quaker thought, such as non-violence and personal communion with God.
     
  19. Mercy Not Sacrifice

    Mercy Not Sacrifice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    2,779
    Ratings:
    +263
    Is He the way, the truth, and the life? Yes.

    Does this require people to profess Him as their personal Lord and Savior? No.

    Honestly, I don't think God cares that much about what we call Him (or Her) or how we reach up to Him. What He does care about, I think, has more to do with our growing mentally and spiritually so that we can become better people. That's something that we should be doing anyway. :)
     
  20. angellous_evangellous

    Ratings:
    +0
    I can't frubal you for this, but I think that this is one of the most insightful statements that I have ever read in RF.

    *swims in michel's pool of wisdom*

    *gets out a new man*

    Angellous

    EDIT: The depth of this statement blows my mind. Mostly I see similar statements followed by a scoffing for someone following out of "blind faith."

    I recently had my first Eucharist at 26 years old. It was the deepest worship experience that I have ever had in my life. After through review of the NT and the church fathers, I had to conclude that the Catholic/EO/Anglican view of the Eucharist is the historically correct practice for Christians. I grew up Baptist, where the Lord's Supper is pretty much a formality of worship rather than the center of the Christian celebration. The extreme depth of worship which beleif in the real presence of Christ brings to the celebration is intense. You said you are content with your Religious dictates, and that is a blessing.

    I doubt that you can remove yourself from your point of view and truly imagine what it is like to participate with the divine so intimately. I know that I couldn't. The experience of faith in Jesus Christ can take you to incredible spiritual heights. I assure you that you are most correct: the blessing is an intense, unforgettable adventure with the Almighty.
     
Loading...