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Featured Is Jesus the Jewish Messiah or not?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Riders, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    I have read where groups that helped write the bible some ere groups who believed Jesus as the Jewish Messiah only for Jews.

    Truth is Christians will deny this. But here are the facts. Raised as a Baptist, I know Christians raised me to believe he was the Jewish Messiah, the reason being is because Christians use the old testaments prophecy of the Jewish Messiah to say this is he one, he was the Called Jewish Messiah.

    If that's so, we have to turn to the Jewish beliefs to find out what they believe about the Messiah. You cant have it both ways, If Jesus is the Messiah of the old Testament he has to pass the Jewish test.

    Now do Jews believe that their Messiah came to save the whole world all religions, then instead of converting to Judaism claiming Jesus as Jewish Messiah, they believe the Messiah meant them to be converted to the Christian church?

    Was the Messiah of the Old testament meant to be Messiah for the Jews or not? If so Christians are wrong, because stands for the world and came to die for the world.

    I have another question for Christians. If Jesus wasn't here to just save Jewish and Jewish Messiah but Messiah that saves the whole world why didn't he do with all the religions of the time like he did with Jews, become their Messiah save them and take over their religion like Christians did. Christians always say we have Jewish roots, were Jewish why? That doesn't make sense unless Jesus was only here to set the Jewish folks free.

    I'm not Jewish I don't need the Jewish gospel. Isn't possible that the other Messiahs of religions at the time, Buddha, Krishna, Gods of Egypt, could have really been Jesus, just God expressing to the world in their own culture and language by sending the Messiah to them?

    I used my spell check so don't try to criticize me spelling unless your willing to provide a list of words that I didn't spell right.
     
  2. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    It is not very debatable. If you are Christian then why debate. Bankers don't debate whether money exists in their banks. They simply act like it does exist, and businesses use them to write checks. Incredibly it works.

    Unless we turn the test on its head, which we can do since we aren't Jewish.

    Go ahead and ask them. I'll wait here while you learn Hebrew and get married.

    What if its complicated?

    Sorry but you only get one question!

    That is another question!

    Ok, but don't criticize my answers then. :p
     
  3. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    ROTFLMAO! Jesus is a banker big belly laugh! So sense its so interesting to anyone but me. However at Beliefnet we discussed this several times. So its ok by me if yall don't want to discuss it.

    But its interesting to some people anyways. Not a big deal if any of my threads die,I can discuss it somewhere else. .
     
  4. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Okey dokey. I just thought somebody should reply.
     
  5. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

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    I would have to say no, if he was the Jews would have noticed him, I think he was just a plagiarized myth so the early church could simply say they are the holder of the Messiah, they didn't like the Jews, and never would have excepted the Jews own Messiah if he was around at that time.
     
  6. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    In the Baha'i Faith Jesus is viewed as a Manifestation of God and all Manifestations of God in our view were universal... for all mankind at the time They appeared. It's true though each Manifestation has appeared in various cultures and some previous dispensations were more limited by geography and cultural limitations.
     
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  7. Jedster

    Jedster Well-Known Member

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    FYI you won't get an answer from most pratising Jews since it is the Sabbath until tomorrow evening...{edited to add}oops I meant tonight(Saturday) after sundown..
    As a non-practising Jew who was once practising, I don't remember all the conditions for Messiah, except the one where (s)he brings world peace.
    I don't see that Jesus did that to the world and certainly not to the Jews.

    Shabbat shalom :)
     
    #7 Jedster, Feb 24, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
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  8. Sakeenah

    Sakeenah Well-Known Member

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    Hi,

    As a muslim I believe Jesus was the messiah, a messenger send specifically to the children of Israeel.
    Jews don't agree with this for a number of reasons, I'm sure the jewish members on RF will respond to your thread but like Jedster mentioned it is Shabbat.
     
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  9. lovesong

    lovesong .little necromancer. .shaman in training.
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    Are you really still hung up over this? The grammar makes things hard to understand, that's all I said. It's not anyone's job to correct your grammar, it's your job, and if you can't/won't then your posts will be hard to understand. Do you really, seriously want one of us to go through every one of your posts and rewrite them for you? I don't think you want to see that, and I don't think we want to do that. I only bothered pointing it out in hopes that you'd realize it and make your future posts easier to understand so that we could all reply and have good discussions.
     
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  10. wizanda

    wizanda One Accepts All Religious Texts
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    The Jews have been divorced because of this, thus are not the best people to ask on this question; as many of them are extremely biased.

    Isaiah 43:28 Therefore I will profane the princes of the sanctuary; and I will make Jacob a curse, and Israel an insult.”

    The Jewish Messianic expectations miss out on many prophecies, to make it all fit with what they want to believe, rather than what the text stipulates.
    Isaiah 49:6-7 Indeed, he says, “It is too light a thing that you should be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel? I will also give you as a light to the nations (Gentiles), that you may be my salvation (Yeshua) to the end of the earth.” (7) Yahweh, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, says to him whom man despises (Isaiah 53:3), to him whom the nation abhors (Zechariah 11:8), to a servant of rulers: “Kings shall see and rise up (Isaiah 52:15); princes, and they shall worship; because of Yahweh who is faithful, even the Holy One of Israel, who has chosen you.”

    There are numerous statements throughout the prophets, saying that Yeshua will make the whole world recognize God is physically with the Jews...

    Unfortunately the Jews don't accept this, so instead the Tribulation is to occur first, and remove everyone who doesn't accept it.
    Each is a separate reflection of the Divine, as well as being part of the same Oneness; they are the Elders that sit around the throne of God.

    Since infinity already knew the whole world would learn all their doctrine; it isn't one specific Elohim/Avatar to each nation, it is they're all saying the same, and clarify each other. :innocent:
     
    #10 wizanda, Feb 25, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2017
  11. Eliab ben Benjamin

    Eliab ben Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Sabbath over here in NZ ,,
    confused how so many none Jews confuse themselves with our beliefs, books, history
    , culture and even our Essene teachings ..

    How odd they should be so arrogant to consider
    they know better ...
     
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  12. Rival

    Rival Unicorn
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    No, he isn't.
     
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  13. Rival

    Rival Unicorn
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    Hi Riders,
    I know you meant these questions for xians but here is my point of view for debate!
    Messiah will bring about an age as described in Jer 31:34, because Prophet Jeremiah says this -

    And no longer shall each one teach his neighbour and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the L-RD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the L-RD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

    This negates the need to 'evangelise' as in the Messianc age all will know G-d.

    Messiah is for the world, and he will not die for anyone. That's not part of his job description.

    See Zech 14:9 -

    The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one L-rd, and His name the only name.
     
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  14. omega2xx

    omega2xx Well-Known Member

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    Groups don't write the Bible, they translate the mss into various languages.

     
  15. rusra02

    rusra02 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus Christ did come as the Messiah first to the nation of Israel. I believe Bible prophecy clearly indicates the Messiah would bring blessings to people of all nations. For example, God told Abraham regarding his offspring: "And by means of your offspring all nations of the earth will obtain a blessing for themselves." (Genesis 22:18) Jehovah would never have the true Messiah associated with false religions. When Jesus walked the earth, the Law of Moses and the Jewish nation were the one true religion. Because of rejecting the Messiah, I believe God ended his exclusive favor to the nation of Israel and transferred his approval to the new Christian congregation who followed the Messiah, Jesus. (Matthew 23:37,38)
     
  16. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Read where?

    What groups?​

    Which books of the bible?​
     
  17. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    :facepalm:
     
  18. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Your point? I believe that the sentence quoted by me is little more than an ignorant and underwhelming fabrication. He should feel free to prove me wrong. Similarly, you should feel free to help her.
     
  19. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    For Christians laughing my face about different groups writing the bible, what groups? Here is just qoute from Wiki and there are others.

    The Publisher Weekly, refers to this book as disputing the conventional wisdom that Dead Sea Scrolls related to the communal sect of the Essenes, and that their presumed monastery is actually a Jewish fortress. It also refers to Golb's belief that the "scrolls and related fragmentary manuscripts embody a wide spectrum of doctrines, genres and themes, from a Hebrew hymn by a Jewish nationalist poet to an apocalyptic brotherhood initiation to an inventory of documents stashed away in the Judaean wilderness.
     
  20. Riders

    Riders Well-Known Member

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    Thank you to the Jewish folks and Muslim here to help me clear up some of the misunerstandings feel free to offer more. It gets very confusing.
     
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