1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Is Jesus literally the Son of God for you?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by calm, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. calm

    calm 12/9/2019

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    412
    Ratings:
    +117
    Religion:
    Natsari
    Many Christians agree that Jesus is the Son of God, but what exactly do they understand by it, because the term "Son of God" has two meanings, one can understand it literally or one can understand it only as a title.

    Now if someone interprets this term literally, then he would have to believe that Jesus is God himself. One with God by nature. For just as the Son of man is man, so also the Son of God is God.
    But if someone interprets this term only as a title, then it means for this person that he does not believe that Jesus is God. So maybe the person believes that Jesus is only an angel or a human being.

    In the Bible the angels in heaven are called all the sons of God, (Genesis 6:2) but this term is used for them only as a title. For Jesus, however, this term is used literally; as the begotten Son. This is made clear in Hebrews 1:5.
    KJV
    For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

    But what do you understand under when Jesus is said to be the Son of God? Is he for you literally the Son of God or not?
    I myself believe that Jesus is literally the Son of God. He was begotten by God. And what was begotten was his word. God begat his own Word/Speech.
     
  2. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    3,037
    Ratings:
    +751
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    Jesus was literally born of the holy Spirit in the womb of Mary which made Him literally the Son of God and the Son of man because He was born of a woman the daughter of man.

    Then again, Jesus was born again of the Spirit when He was resurrected. This means He was again the Son of God by the holy Spirit.
     
  3. Eddi

    Eddi Mark 5:9

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Messages:
    578
    Ratings:
    +324
    Religion:
    Christian
    Yes, he is

    The Nicene Creed says so
     
  4. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2019
    Messages:
    1,589
    Ratings:
    +1,118
    Religion:
    Creedalist Xian
    At one time, I had three mothers and two fathers; all are now dead. I am/was:
    • The biological son of one mother and one father;
    • The stepson of another mother; and
    • The adopted son of my second father and third mother.
    Whose son was I literally? Each of the above would have said that I was, literally, his or her son. I called each, Mom or Dad; and affirm that I am/was, literally, the son of each. Anyone who disputes the literality of my relationship between me and any one of my parents is nuts.

    If Jesus of Nazareth called HaShem "Father" and HaShem called Jesus "Son", there is no way on earth or under heaven that I'm going to dispute that.
     
  5. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    38,158
    Ratings:
    +14,537
    Religion:
    Love
    I'm not a Christian but I take Jesus as the Avatar, God in human form along with other manifestations of the Avatar including Rama, Buddha and others.
     
  6. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    26,132
    Ratings:
    +8,393
    Religion:
    Liberal Christian
    Heb 1:5 quoting a Psalm says approximately "Today you have become my son" which sounds like adoption. The author of Hebrews explains later that Jesus is not perfect at first and has to be made perfect in Heb 5:9. That also suggests it is an adoption. That's Hebrews. If I bring the gospel of John into this, John chapter one explains that the logos is the power to become sons of God. That descends and alights upon Jesus like a dove, and John sees it and witnesses it. Both books are preserved by gentiles and copied and recopied until they come to our time. I presume it applies to both gentiles and Jews. The catholic church also believes in the immaculate birth of Mary. I am not sure why that matters or if it relates to this. That is not explained in the gospels or anything in my past. I guess part of the reason I don't know it is that I just never have been on that side of the fence before.
     
  7. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2018
    Messages:
    721
    Ratings:
    +117
    Religion:
    I officially believe the jehovah's witness religion.
    I believe what the jehovah's witness say.:)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    26,132
    Ratings:
    +8,393
    Religion:
    Liberal Christian
    Oh..I lost track. In answer to the OP, yes. The adoption I think was absolute, so he became truly the son of God.
     
  9. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    55,286
    Ratings:
    +13,826
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    I take the description of Jesus as the "Son of God" to refer to the idea that God was the one who impregnated Mary... i.e. Jesus is literally God's progeny.

    As for whether I accept this, it depends on which context we're talking about.

    Within the context of the story, yes: I think that Jesus is literally God's son (the same way that I think that Luke Skywalker is literally Anakin's son).

    Within the larger context of real-world history: I have no reason to believe that any of the events described in the Bible actually happened as described or that God exists at all.
     
  10. calm

    calm 12/9/2019

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    412
    Ratings:
    +117
    Religion:
    Natsari
    and what do Jehovah's Witnesses say?
     
  11. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2018
    Messages:
    721
    Ratings:
    +117
    Religion:
    I officially believe the jehovah's witness religion.
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    10,193
    Ratings:
    +5,412
    Religion:
    Christian JW
    It is important to understand the terminology when considering how Jesus is "THE" son of God, rather than "A" son of God.

    The term "only begotten" applies to this "son" and no one else. How is Jesus "only begotten" when God has other "sons"?

    The apostle Paul explains....

    Colossians 1:15-17 (NASB)
    "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."

    This "son" was the only direct creation of his Father.....everything else was created "through" the agency of the son. His spirit 'brothers' (angels) were not created by God directly but were brought into existence by the pre-human Jesus.

    Since Jesus is "begotten" he needed a 'begetter'...a "father" who gave him life. Jesus is a creation of the Father so he is not God. There was a time when the son did not exist.

    In the Revelation, which was given to the apostle John by Jesus, he reveals that Jesus calls his Father "my God" even in heaven...if Jesus is God, how can he have a God? Does he worship himself?

    Revelation 3:12....
    "12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name." (NASB)

    4 times in this one verse Jesus identifies his Father as "my God" so if Jesus is God, how does that verse make any sense?

    He goes on to say....

    Revelation 3:14...
    14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says..." (NASB)

    Jesus is called "the Beginning of the creation of God" which confirms what Paul said.

    He is called "the Logos" because that means he is God's spokesman.....he always spoke for God. He is the appointed "Mediator" between God and sinful mankind. (1 Timothy 2:5)
    How can Jesus be God if he is our mediator? Wouldn't we need a mediator between us and him in that case? :shrug:

    To me, the scriptures clearly show that Jesus is not God and never once claimed to be.
     
  13. EtuMalku

    EtuMalku MERCURÆN LUCIFERIAN

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    3,566
    Ratings:
    +888
    Religion:
    H☿D
    For me, Jesus probably never physically existed, he is a composite of dying/resurrecting god-myths rolled into what was a heretical Jewish sect that obviously caught on.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. calm

    calm 12/9/2019

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    412
    Ratings:
    +117
    Religion:
    Natsari
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2018
    Messages:
    721
    Ratings:
    +117
    Religion:
    I officially believe the jehovah's witness religion.
  16. calm

    calm 12/9/2019

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    412
    Ratings:
    +117
    Religion:
    Natsari
  17. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2018
    Messages:
    721
    Ratings:
    +117
    Religion:
    I officially believe the jehovah's witness religion.
    If you look in 1 Colossians 1:15.It says jesus was the first born of all creation.I take this to be literal:).
     
  18. Frank Goad

    Frank Goad Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2018
    Messages:
    721
    Ratings:
    +117
    Religion:
    I officially believe the jehovah's witness religion.
    I think it says it in 1 Colossians 1:15.
     
  19. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    10,193
    Ratings:
    +5,412
    Religion:
    Christian JW
  20. calm

    calm 12/9/2019

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    412
    Ratings:
    +117
    Religion:
    Natsari
    The title "Firstborn of all creation" does not stand for the "first created being", as you probably believe, but for the Rank / Position. It means that Jesus is the "King(firstborn) of all creation".

    Here is an example: God calls Ephraim his "first-born", although Ephraim is the younger of Joseph's two sons.
    Genesis 41:51-52 KJV
    And Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh: For God, [said he], hath made me forget all my toil, and all my father's house.
    And the name of the second called he Ephraim: For God hath caused me to be fruitful in the land of my affliction.


    Jeremiah 31:9 KJV
    ... for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.”

    For more information: What does it mean that Jesus is the firstborn of creation? | CARM.org

    If the Bible wants to emphasize the chronological order, it uses the term "firstfruit". For example, in 1 Corinthians 15:20, Jesus is called the "firstfruit of the departed".


    Besides, it is not written anywhere that Michael is the "firstborn of all creation"; that cannot be because Michael is a created being. But Jesus is God, he is the King and the Most High of all creation, and not a created being according to the bible.
    As you see, this has nothing to do with Michael the angel.
    I ask you again to show me where it is written in the Bible that Jesus is Michael.
     
    #20 calm, Nov 7, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
Loading...