Is Jesus God?

[Popeyesays]

Your post only proves my point: Christ is the first born (begotten, not made, as the creed says...). Gee...sounds Biblical to me!

Did the word of God come out of the mouth of Jesus? Sure Did! Read John sometime. What's unBiblical about John?

God is Father/Creator. That's true. God is also Son/Redeemer.

First of all, you can't translate the Greek to "'word(s)." Seconly, read on in that chapter, and you'll find the Bible saying that the Word was Jesus...

Let me turn your first question around: And what other parts of the NT have you not understood?

The "WORD" was "BE!" one word containing the whole creative impulse. Jesus is the height and purpose of all creation.

However, so, too were Moses and Muhammed, Abraham and Baha`u'llah, Zoroaster and the Bab, Drsna and Buddha. All were, in Their individual turn and in the identity of Their Spirit the Word Made Flesh.

The Nicene Creed was a political compromise, not canonical at all.

Regards,
Scott

 

[sojourner]

The "WORD" was "BE!" one word containing the whole creative impulse. Jesus is the height and purpose of all creation.

However, so, too were Moses and Muhammed, Abraham and Baha`u'llah, Zoroaster and the Bab, Drsna and Buddha. All were, in Their individual turn and in the identity of Their Spirit the Word Made Flesh.

The Nicene Creed was a political compromise, not canonical at all.

Regards,
Scott

Actually, the "word" was become. My point was that the Word became flesh, and is identified in John as Jesus.

The Nicene Creed is not canonical, but it is revelatory, and it is a summation of our understanding of canonical scripture.

 

[Popeyesays]

Actually, the "word" was become. My point was that the Word became flesh, and is identified in John as Jesus.

The Nicene Creed is not canonical, but it is revelatory, and it is a summation of our understanding of canonical scripture.

Revelatory by whose criteria? Jesus had a revelation, I doubt the catfighting bishops of the council of Nicaea were experiencing revelation while they cast each other out as heretics to seek political power over their opponents.

I do not accept the Epistles as revelatory, they are commentary, but not revelation.

As to John's comments on the nature of Jesus, this thread IS based on Gospel from the mouth of Jesus. John was not revelatory, he was just a commentator.

Regards,
Scott

 

[may]

[/b]

Jesus was not God Like, Infact he was given Miracles,every Prophet is given a Miracle which suits his time...that doesn't make him God Like...The sea sperated for Moses...food came down from the sky...now here we can't say that Moses was God like...the Moon broke into two pieces only by the pointing of to fingures...(Muhammed)...you can't say he was God Like......Giving life to a dead is a God's work to do... But Jesus did it...as he was granted this Miracle so that people will believe in him...the one who misunderstands this can say he is God-Like...But there is nothing like God...Jesus was the Prophet of God.....because God has No GOD...

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yes that is right God has no God , that is why Jesus is Gods only-begotten son
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life ... John 3;16

 

[may]

Aaaah,yes God is unable to cause a young girl to conceive and bear a son! No way He can make this child grow up and be the embodyment of His very "Word/Torah"! Well, you do not believe in God, because He can and did. Also if the ruler of your country sends a messenger with a Pardon, you wont accept it because you did not hear it directly for him(Ruler)?

It seems to me when we accept the word of man and reject Torah which is called the "Word of God" we have put ourselves as god and as such we are in charge, there is no god besides us.
If there is no god, let's party, we only go around once so grab all you can get!

Well, I believe in the God of Abraham.

and me, psalm 83;18

That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,


​

You alone are the Most High over all the earth

 

[may]

But the Bible says that the Word (Jesus) was with God before creation. Jesus was begotten of God, but not created by God -- God from God, as the creed says.

Jesus was the only one created by Jehovah alone ,every thing else created was through Jesus , thats why he was in the beginning with God . Jesus was Jehovahs master worker
then I came to be beside him as a master worker, and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time, proverbs 8; 30

So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth. .......... john 1 14

 

[sojourner]

Revelatory by whose criteria? Jesus had a revelation, I doubt the catfighting bishops of the council of Nicaea were experiencing revelation while they cast each other out as heretics to seek political power over their opponents.

I do not accept the Epistles as revelatory, they are commentary, but not revelation.

As to John's comments on the nature of Jesus, this thread IS based on Gospel from the mouth of Jesus. John was not revelatory, he was just a commentator.

Regards,
Scott

Considered revelatory by Christ's Body, the Church. Don't you think God acts through the human drama?

So...Jesus is incapable of speaking through people?

I just don't think there's a big disconnect between God and God's people. In what way -- by what criterion -- are the epistles not revleatory? Or John's gospel?

 

[Popeyesays]

Considered revelatory by Christ's Body, the Church. Don't you think God acts through the human drama?

I believe God's will cannot be thwarted. But I do not find any revelatory authority in the Church. Only commentary on the revelation of Christ can be made after Jesus stops speaking in this world directly. From that [point on we have His revelatory word and the individual responsibility to interpret it.

So...Jesus is incapable of speaking through people?

God spoke through Jesus. God does not speak through the Council of Nicaea or the pastor at the corner church.

I just don't think there's a big disconnect between God and God's people. In what way -- by what criterion -- are the epistles not revleatory? Or John's gospel?

There is not a big disconnect at all. About 600 years after Christ came Muhammad. 1260 years after Muhammed came the Bab, and as the Bab promised a short time later came Baha`u'llah. Jesus promised we would never be left alone and we have not; but, when Jesus promise was fulfilled the will of God was left to be disclosed by Muhammad, the Bab, Baha`u'llah - not by the Christian church in any of its 30,000 varieties. The fact that it has thirty thousand varieties speaks to its inability to reveal God's wilol at this point in the history of human civilization.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Ronald]

Your post only proves my point: Christ is the first born (begotten, not made, as the creed says...). Gee...sounds Biblical to me!

Did the word of God come out of the mouth of Jesus? Sure Did! Read John sometime. What's unBiblical about John?

God is Father/Creator. That's true. God is also Son/Redeemer.

First of all, you can't translate the Greek to "'word(s)." Seconly, read on in that chapter, and you'll find the Bible saying that the Word was Jesus...

Let me turn your first question around: And what other parts of the NT have you not understood?

Another CONVINCED Christian! When you see "Then God said" You see Jesus saying. Another Adder!
What a waste of time!!!!!

 

[Yasin]

How did "the Word" manage to become flesh and dwell among us while "God" remained in Heaven?

If you read the original greek, that verse is not what it seems:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God(Theos), and the Word was God (Thong Thios).
(John 1:1)

The first God mentioned is the Almighty God, Theos in Greek.
The second god mentioned is Tong Thios, which in Greek means a god, just like in the verse:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not...
(2 Corin 4:4)

So i think in the light of this, the verse John 1:1 should not be used for proof of Jesus's (pbuh) Divinity. Excluding the fact these are not his words!

Ps. Check this up for yourself

Respectively, Yasin:bounce

 

[sojourner]

I believe God's will cannot be thwarted. But I do not find any revelatory authority in the Church. Only commentary on the revelation of Christ can be made after Jesus stops speaking in this world directly. From that [point on we have His revelatory word and the individual responsibility to interpret it.

That's why you're not a Christian. That's why you're not a member of the Church.

God spoke through Jesus. God does not speak through the Council of Nicaea or the pastor at the corner church.

Yes, God did speak through Jesus. yes, God did speak through the Council and does speak through the "pastor at the corner church."

There is not a big disconnect at all. About 600 years after Christ came Muhammad. 1260 years after Muhammed came the Bab, and as the Bab promised a short time later came Baha`u'llah. Jesus promised we would never be left alone and we have not; but, when Jesus promise was fulfilled the will of God was left to be disclosed by Muhammad, the Bab, Baha`u'llah - not by the Christian church in any of its 30,000 varieties. The fact that it has thirty thousand varieties speaks to its inability to reveal God's wilol at this point in the history of human civilization.

Oh. I suppose there aren't differing groups of Muslims?

If you read the Bible, you will note that Jesus says he will send the Spirit to be with us, not some Arabic man. That's why I'm not a Muslim.

 

[sojourner]

Another CONVINCED Christian! When you see "Then God said" You see Jesus saying. Another Adder!
What a waste of time!!!!!

Another CONVINCED Christian? Another adder? Waste of time? What are you talking about?

When I read "Then God said," I don't read "Jesus." What are you talking about?

 

[Ronald]

That's why you're not a Christian. That's why you're not a member of the Church.

Who made you judge over this soul?

Yes, God did speak through Jesus. yes, God did speak through the Council and does speak through the "pastor at the corner church.".

Who told you an Arab man can't be an instrument of God? Would you please, describe what the "Comforter" looks like?

Oh. I suppose there aren't differing groups of Muslims?

If you read the Bible, you will note that Jesus says he will send the Spirit to be with us, not some Arabic man. That's why I'm not a Muslim.

Mt 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
Ro 14:13 Then let us no more pass judgment on one another, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
You, my friend, you are to judge those in your church! 1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?

 

[Ronald]

Another CONVINCED Christian? Another adder? Waste of time? What are you talking about?

When I read "Then God said," I don't read "Jesus." What are you talking about?

You are in the midst of De Nile, you very much, do say Jesus is God. You can not find one place in scripture where Jesus says "I am God"! So when you say he is God you are an Adder! The bible says, Jesus said he is the son of God. Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the son of God'?

Who consecrated WHOM? God did the consecrating! You are adding to scripture what you believe! And are God? By what authority do you add to scripture.Yeshua/Jesus was the SENT ONE, God did the sending! God is the only "ETERNAL" Jesus died and was raised by God!
Shalom

 

[sojourner]

Who made you judge over this soul?

No one. I never said he was evil, or going to hell, or that he wasn't right with God. He's just of a different faith. It's not a judgment.

Who told you an Arab man can't be an instrument of God? Would you please, describe what the "Comforter" looks like?

I did specifically say that God spoke through ordinary human beings. Popeye said otherwise! My statement was in reference to his misrepresentation of a Biblical passage. His statement seemed to say that Jesus would not leave us alone because of these Arabic people who came along later. But that's not what Jesus is quoted as saying in the Bible. Jesus says that he will send the Spirit to be with us.

Mt 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
Ro 14:13 Then let us no more pass judgment on one another, but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
You, my friend, you are to judge those in your church! 1Co 5:12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?

What is this? When did I ever judge someone? Just because I state that they are of a different faith than mine does not mean I'm passing judgment! I wouldn't judge, even if someone were of the same faith as me.

I think you must have read something the wrong way, or maybe you're off your medication.

 

[sojourner]

You are in the midst of De Nile, you very much, do say Jesus is God. You can not find one place in scripture where Jesus says "I am God"! So when you say he is God you are an Adder! The bible says, Jesus said he is the son of God. Joh 10:36 do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the son of God'?

Who consecrated WHOM? God did the consecrating! You are adding to scripture what you believe! And are God? By what authority do you add to scripture.Yeshua/Jesus was the SENT ONE, God did the sending! God is the only "ETERNAL" Jesus died and was raised by God!
Shalom

Yes. I do say that Jesus is God. I do maintain that Jesus is quoted as saying so, if in a roundabout way. I do maintain that God the Son was sent, and that God the Father did the sending.

By no one's authority am I "adding to scripture," because I'm not "adding to scripture." It's called interpreting the scripture, which I have every intention of continuing to do. Take a chill pill, and try taking that Matthew scripture about judging and hypocrisy into your own heart, Chucky.

 

[sojourner]

If you read the original greek, that verse is not what it seems:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God(Theos), and the Word was God (Thong Thios).
(John 1:1)

The first God mentioned is the Almighty God, Theos in Greek.
The second god mentioned is Tong Thios, which in Greek means a god, just like in the verse:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not...
(2 Corin 4:4)

So i think in the light of this, the verse John 1:1 should not be used for proof of Jesus's (pbuh) Divinity. Excluding the fact these are not his words!

Ps. Check this up for yourself

Respectively, Yasin:bounce

I'll have to look that up in the TDNT when I have time. It's a thought I'd not considered. Thanks.

 

[Popeyesays]

That's why you're not a Christian. That's why you're not a member of the Church.

I accept Jesus as the Son of God. I accept that His Message was of love and forgiveness. However, calling Him God Almighty is a bit blasphemous to me.

Yes, God did speak through Jesus. yes, God did speak through the Council and does speak through the "pastor at the corner church."

No. God sometimes speaks through people today, but the corner church nearest where I live posts billboards calling for the destruction of Islam. Is THAT PASTOR speaking God's words?

Oh. I suppose there aren't differing groups of Muslims?

There are less than a dozen recognizably different groups of Muslims. At last count there were 30,000 different groups of Christians.

If you read the Bible, you will note that Jesus says he will send the Spirit to be with us, not some Arabic man. That's why I'm not a Muslim.

Jesus said the Spirit of Truth" would be sent - not the "Spirit". He also says that when He comes He will speak with a man's mouth - He says the SPirit of Truth will speak as God bids Him speak, and guide us unto all things.

I see no reason not to accept an Arabic man (Muhammad) as the Spirit of Truth. After all a cause NOT from God will not prosper.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Ronald]

[quote originally posted by sourjourner} If you read the Bible, you will note that Jesus says he will send the Spirit to be with us, not some Arabic man. That's why I'm not a Muslim.[/quote]It is perfectly clear to everybody that you wrote those words! I stated a fact, no judgement.
It is quite clear what you feel about Muslims. As I said before talking to a convinced Christian is a waste of time.
Carbolic acid, that's goodbye in any language.

 

[sojourner]

I accept Jesus as the Son of God. I accept that His Message was of love and forgiveness. However, calling Him God Almighty is a bit blasphemous to me.


No. God sometimes speaks through people today, but the corner church nearest where I live posts billboards calling for the destruction of Islam. Is THAT PASTOR speaking God's words?


There are less than a dozen recognizably different groups of Muslims. At last count there were 30,000 different groups of Christians.


Jesus said the Spirit of Truth" would be sent - not the "Spirit". He also says that when He comes He will speak with a man's mouth - He says the SPirit of Truth will speak as God bids Him speak, and guide us unto all things.

I see no reason not to accept an Arabic man (Muhammad) as the Spirit of Truth. After all a cause NOT from God will not prosper.

Regards,
Scott

Maybe I had the wrong impression about the Baha'i faith. My understanding was that you don't view yourselves as Christian. To me, your posts seem more Muslim-aligned than Christian-aligned.

I would agree with your second statement. Just because God speaks through people, doesn't mean that everything that comes out of a person's mouth is "of God." But I believe that, generally, the religious councils spoke truth.

About the different denominations: So what? For centuries there were less than a dozen Christian sects, too. Would you like to return to the days of the Inquisition and the purchase of indulgences? Perhaps more viewpoints alloow us to envision a broader spectrum of who God is -- perhaps our theology is now less myopic than it once was.

Jesus also referred to the "Counselor." The generaly-accepted Christian viewpoint is that Jesus is referring to the Holy Spirit -- not to a certain person, or persons who ar recognized. if that's the criterion you're using, then we could rationally appoint any of a number of historic figures: Mother Teresa, Pope John Paul II, Mortin Luther King, Jr., etc. etc. No, I don't buy that. Jesus was speaking of the Holy Spirit, who would come to counsel and comfort all of us.

Maybe Mohammed had the spirit of truth, (maybe he even had the Holy Spirit -- who knows for sure?) But, being a Christian, I don't believe that he was equal to Jesus -- Jesus was fully human and fully divine -- Mohammed was not. That's why I'm a Christian and not a Muslim. (If the Muslims want to believe something other than that, they may -- and I'm OK with that. It's just not for me.)