Is Jesus God?

[tmThEMaN]

What i know is that saint paul was the one who came up with the idea of Jesus pbuh being the son of god.

I personally don't see why God would have a son. And moreover, let him be crucified to forgive human's sins. If God is all powerful, all merciful, then he can simply forgive everybody. I just don't find it reasonable. with all due respect to those who believe it.

I've asked some christian friends about it, they said you need faith to believe it to understand. But i prefer to believe after that i understand.

For example, i find more reasonable that God created human beings, and then sent messengers to those who lost their faith in him.

In islam, each group of people recieved their own prophet that told them there's only one God that created all and he is the only one that we should worship. But Muhammad pbuh came as the final prophet with the religon that will cover all the previous religons and perfect them. That's why Islam is not only a belief, but it's also a way of life. Islam covers every single part and activity in our lifes and identify what is right and wrong.

God bless.

 

[Ronald]

Talk is cheap! Any religion that says it's roots are from Abraham and does not follow through the word of God, Torah, is as phoney as a three dollar bill. One must go to the source and then stay one the main stream, all the later day tributaries, all tell of a new way to the God of Abraham, He says "I do not change."
If anyone is "CONVINCED" they are right, the thing for you to do is "stay the course."
If you are Christian, Muslim, or Latter Day Saints, just keep, on keeping on.
The "Righteous of all nations will have their part in the world to come."

I will follow Torah, Yeshua and Sha'ul! I have had my Damascus Road experience.
I will proclaim the God of Abraham and His "Word" all day every day.
With that I am perfectly content.

 

[tmThEMaN]

Talk is cheap! Any religion that says it's roots are from Abraham and does not follow through the word of God, Torah, is as phoney as a three dollar bill. One must go to the source and then stay one the main stream, all the later day tributaries, all tell of a new way to the God of Abraham, He says "I do not change."
If anyone is "CONVINCED" they are right, the thing for you to do is "stay the course."
If you are Christian, Muslim, or Latter Day Saints, just keep, on keeping on.
The "Righteous of all nations will have their part in the world to come."

I will follow Torah, Yeshua and Sha'ul! I have had my Damascus Road experience.
I will proclaim the God of Abraham and His "Word" all day every day.
With that I am perfectly content.

nice post. I highly respect your confidence ... Religon is most beautiful when someone feels he belongs to it. That's the beauty of a believer.

 

[BUDDY]

In my study of the Bible, I have come to the conclusion that Jesus was God, the son, the portion that was made flesh. Here are the passages that I believe show this. I posted this in another thread, but since there are three threads about the same subject, I will put my evidence here as well.

John.1

[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
[6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
[7] The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
[8] He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
[9] That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
[10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[15] John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
[16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
[17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

John 8
[58] Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

The term "I am" is the exact term that God used in Exodus 3:14 in reference to Himself! Jesus professed to be the eternal God of the Bible.

John 10
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
[30] I and my Father are one.

Who else is able to give eternal life except God? Only God can, and Jesus himself says that they are one in the same. Can't get much plainer than that.

Matthew 28
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

If Jesus Christ isn't Deity, then why did He include Himself in the Holy Trinity?

John 14
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

He again equates himself with God.

That's all for now, but there are still more if you actually need it.

 

[Judgement Day]

Ok, I will quote some of the verse of the bible:

John 14:28
You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

If Jesus is God, can there be something greater than him?

John 5:19
Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

What kind of God is he if he can do nothing for himself?

John 5:30
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Again, what kind of God is he if he can do nothing?

Matthew 3:16-17
As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." Clearly from the dialogue, it pictures in your mind that there is Jesus(on earth) and a voice coming from the other side(heavens). How can there be 2 people at the same time at a different place?


In addition, can you find any verse in the bible that Jesus explicitly says that he is God(for example, Jesus said:"I am God"?

 

[Abram]

The Old Testament is the account of a nation.

The New Testament is the account of a man.

The creator became a man and died to purchase us and is alive today.

His death is the central theme of all history.

The most exalted privilege we have is to know him.

You can pick a scripture here and there to try to make a case. Stand back from the Bible and read it as whole story. The entire Bible points to Jesus. Right from Genesis to Revelation. Man was made in the image of God??? I could quote a ton of scripture from the OT and NT. That has been done on this thread already.

Here's the worst part. If Jesus is not God, your sins are not forgiven. No man has the power to free man from sin, no matter how divine he is.

Jesus is either God or a mad man on a huge power trip. But he is not a special profit or just a great teacher, he reveled himself to us to show that there is a God and showed us how to act. Instead of appreciating it, we twist and torture the scripture to try to explain away our salvation. That's sad and we should be glad Jesus was God.

 

[Judgement Day]

Here's the worst part. If Jesus is not God, your sins are not forgiven.

I thought your God was a Merciful and Loving God? Why do you need someone to suffer for you own sin, when God can forgive? Or is he not?

No man has the power to free man from sin, no matter how divine he is.

True, just like Jesus, no matter how divine he is, he cannot free us from our sins, only God has the privilage to do that.

 

[Abram]

I thought your God was a Merciful and Loving God? Why do you need someone to suffer for you own sin, when God can forgive? Or is he not?

He is a loving and merciful God. He became a man, over came every temptation, fulfilled every prophecy as written in the Old Testament, then gave himself as the final sacrifice. Just to let us know he forgives us.

He had to suffer for our sins because sin leads to death. When we sin we feel guilt, this guilt makes us feel ashamed, so we hide from God. Just like Adam and Eve did after they disobeyed God.

If we believe Christ died to forgive us, we then can wash our selves from sin and guilt and no longer want to hide from God. Then we can rebuild a relationship with him and have eternal life with him.

True, just like Jesus, no matter how divine he is, he cannot free us from our sins, only God has the privilage to do that.

Unless Jesus was God. Which I put my life on.

 

[BUDDY]

Ok, I will quote some of the verse of the bible:


If Jesus is God, can there be something greater than him?

In the study of the trinity, you will find that God the Father has pre-eminence over that of the Spririt and the Son. The Father guides the Spirit and the Son to do His will, but they are still a part of him. For example, if someone to say that your arm alone is you, they would be wrong. All that you are is made up of more than just your arm. However, it is true to say that your arm is part of you and you guide your arm to do your will. That is how the Son of God is, He is a part of God, He is God, but he is not everything that God is and God still guides Him in His will.

What kind of God is he if he can do nothing for himself?

Again, what kind of God is he if he can do nothing?

He certainly can't do anything apart from what was the will of His Father, God the Father. Not if He wished to do what was right and remain the perfect sacrifice for sin.

In addition, can you find any verse in the bible that Jesus explicitly says that he is God(for example, Jesus said:"I am God"?

Well, what is explicitly in your opinion? I have a feeling that it will not really matter what verse I quote as the ones I have mentioned so far have had no effect. If these next ones do not work then I am afraid it is my obligation to wish you well and be moving on to something else more constructive.

Matthew 22
[41] While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
[42] Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
[43] He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
[44] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
[45] If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
[46] And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Here, Jesus makes the claim to be the Lord God that is talked about by David in Psalms 110:1, "The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

Last one.

John 20
[27] Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
[28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
[29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Here, He allows Thomas to address Him as deity....and does not correct him or instruct him of any error. This means that Thomas was correct in his address.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

This is a degradation to God calling Him a Word and then Flesh....

Jesus was God Messenger who was send to the Earth to Preach that He is One and Eternal....This is the Same message all the Prophets came with...Adam, Naoh, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammed...Peace and Blessing be upon them All...

He went one step further and 'showed us the way'. The way and the light. He lead by example. He preached of loving each other and God. He taught of forgiveness. He taught us to serve others before we serve ourselves. And he PRACTICED WHAT HE PREACHED. He showed us that you can over come ALL adversities and remain in a state of unconditional love for all of man kind.

The part of the message that goes over most of our heads is the fact that not only was Jesus the son of God, BUT SO ARE WE, SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD. Jesus showed us how to do it, he showed us what was possible. Jesus took his place as the HEAD OF CHRIST, and we are the BODY OF CHRIST, regardless of whether you acknowledge it or not. We are all connected, all a part of God's Creation.

Most of the HEROES of the bible fell to some sort of evil. But Jesus showed us what kind of miracles we could help create, if only we allowed ourselves to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and keep from shutting out the Holy Spirit with sin. He showed us the rewards for following the commandments.

 

[Squirt]

I dunno. I didn't do it. That's why it's a mystery. All I know is that it happened. The best I can do is that God the Father remained in heaven. God the Son became flesh, through the power of God the Holy Spirit. Three distinct Persons -- one distinct God. Heady stuff, huh?

Well, put it that way, and I can pretty much agree with you. As long as you throw in the "three distinct persons" bit, I'm okay with the "one distinct God" part.

 

[Ronald]

Aaaah,yes God is unable to cause a young girl to conceive and bear a son! No way He can make this child grow up and be the embodyment of His very "Word/Torah"! Well, you do not believe in God, because He can and did. Also if the ruler of your country sends a messenger with a Pardon, you wont accept it because you did not hear it directly for him(Ruler)?

It seems to me when we accept the word of man and reject Torah which is called the "Word of God" we have put ourselves as god and as such we are in charge, there is no god besides us.
If there is no god, let's party, we only go around once so grab all you can get!

Well, I believe in the God of Abraham.

 

[Popeyesays]

Aaaah,yes God is unable to cause a young girl to conceive and bear a son! No way He can make this child grow up and be the embodyment of His very "Word/Torah"! Well, you do not believe in God, because He can and did. Also if the ruler of your country sends a messenger with a Pardon, you wont accept it because you did not hear it directly for him(Ruler)?

It seems to me when we accept the word of man and reject Torah which is called the "Word of God" we have put ourselves as god and as such we are in charge, there is no god besides us.
If there is no god, let's party, we only go around once so grab all you can get!

Well, I believe in the God of Abraham.

I believe that Mary conceived of God in the sense that God said Let it BE! and it was. No semen or DNA involved simply an act of will. I believe that the "WORD" that was with God was His impulse to Create, again "BE!". In that sense Jesus or Moses or Muhammad or Baha`u'llah is the pinnacle of God's Creative impulse the very reason for Creation in the first place.

However, none of that belief has room for the idea that Jesus IS God.

Regards,
Scott

 

[tmThEMaN]

He went one step further and 'showed us the way'. The way and the light. He lead by example. He preached of loving each other and God. He taught of forgiveness. He taught us to serve others before we serve ourselves. And he PRACTICED WHAT HE PREACHED. He showed us that you can over come ALL adversities and remain in a state of unconditional love for all of man kind.

The part of the message that goes over most of our heads is the fact that not only was Jesus the son of God, BUT SO ARE WE, SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD. Jesus showed us how to do it, he showed us what was possible. Jesus took his place as the HEAD OF CHRIST, and we are the BODY OF CHRIST, regardless of whether you acknowledge it or not. We are all connected, all a part of God's Creation.

Christianity is one of the great religons . And Jesus pbuh was indeed a great man with great teachings. Because he was teaching what God tought him. And only good comes from God.
The problem happened when the followers of christ (pbuh) claimed he was God, when he is inocent from that claim. If he is the Son of God, then we all are like you said. Because we are all God's creation, just like what Jesus Christ (pbuh) is.

Most of the HEROES of the bible fell to some sort of evil. But Jesus showed us what kind of miracles we could help create, if only we allowed ourselves to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and keep from shutting out the Holy Spirit with sin. He showed us the rewards for following the commandments.

I wish everyone follows God's commandments like we should. The world would've been a much greater place to live in.

 

[sojourner]

Christianity is one of the great religons . And Jesus pbuh was indeed a great man with great teachings. Because he was teaching what God tought him. And only good comes from God.
The problem happened when the followers of christ (pbuh) claimed he was God, when he is inocent from that claim. If he is the Son of God, then we all are like you said. Because we are all God's creation, just like what Jesus Christ (pbuh) is.


I wish everyone follows God's commandments like we should. The world would've been a much greater place to live in.

But the Bible says that the Word (Jesus) was with God before creation. Jesus was begotten of God, but not created by God -- God from God, as the creed says.

 

[Popeyesays]

But the Bible says that the Word (Jesus) was with God before creation. Jesus was begotten of God, but not created by God -- God from God, as the creed says.

The Creed does not appear in the Bible.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Ronald]

But the Bible says that the Word (Jesus) was with God before creation. Jesus was begotten of God, but not created by God -- God from God, as the creed says.

And what other parts of your NT do you not believe?
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Bereshis bara Elohim (at) hashamayim---------- Aleph tav = Alpha and Omega the first and the last---Re 22:13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Re 19:13 He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
Did the word of God come out of the mouth of Jesus? NO! From the mouth of God.

Then God said, Not Jesus, let there be light, but yet the NT can be true also.

Then God said,(What came out of His mouth) the WORD's, let there be light.
So the word was with God and the word was God! No conflict!
In absence of the words coming out of the mouth of Jesus, "I am God". Anyone who says Jesus is God, has ADDed to the bible the "Word of God" and he is an Adder/serpent.
Pardon the pun.

 

[sojourner]

The Creed does not appear in the Bible.

Regards,
Scott

So? What's your point? This thread didn't limit discussion to the Bible. The creed is a theological summation of Biblical Christology.

 

[sojourner]

And what other parts of your NT do you not believe?
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Bereshis bara Elohim (at) hashamayim---------- Aleph tav = Alpha and Omega the first and the last---Re 22:13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Re 19:13 He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
Did the word of God come out of the mouth of Jesus? NO! From the mouth of God.

Then God said, Not Jesus, let there be light, but yet the NT can be true also.

Then God said,(What came out of His mouth) the WORD's, let there be light.
So the word was with God and the word was God! No conflict!
In absence of the words coming out of the mouth of Jesus, "I am God". Anyone who says Jesus is God, has ADDed to the bible the "Word of God" and he is an Adder/serpent.
Pardon the pun.

Your post only proves my point: Christ is the first born (begotten, not made, as the creed says...). Gee...sounds Biblical to me!

Did the word of God come out of the mouth of Jesus? Sure Did! Read John sometime. What's unBiblical about John?

God is Father/Creator. That's true. God is also Son/Redeemer.

First of all, you can't translate the Greek to "'word(s)." Seconly, read on in that chapter, and you'll find the Bible saying that the Word was Jesus...

Let me turn your first question around: And what other parts of the NT have you not understood?

 

[godluvsu2]

You are also God in the flesh. He was the head. You are the body.