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Featured Is Jesus God?.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Gerry, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    They wanted you to sign a document? No one in the New Testament ever said anything about having to sign a document. I agree with you, I would just not join that denomination. Demanding that you sign a document isn't something Jesus would do.
     
  2. Nathan Malone

    Nathan Malone Member

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    John 1:1-3,10-12, 14
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
    12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
    14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
     
  3. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    'Son', is part of the godhood, which is singular pluralistic.
    Genesis 1:26
    The man incarnation, via Mary, in Israel, is a manifestation of YHWH, the part of the godhood that is what is described as 'YHWH Elohim', elsewhere in the text.
    Hebrews 8:1-12
    According to these verses, in your theory, Jesus would have been the creator, and would have made the first Covenant with the Israelites, and would have led the Israelites out of Egypt. If Jesus were the son of God, yet not God, then why are the verses in the O.T. ,all referring to God, as having done these things?
    Is the o.t. wrong?
    Is the book of Hebrews made up?
    Is it all so metaphoric, that deity concepts have literally no meaning, Biblically?

    If the father is always formless, why does He have a throne?


    /how much of the bible is "metaphor", for you?
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    As far as Genesis 3:22 goes God did Not learn what was bad by doing bad as Adam did. (Psalms 92:14-15)
    Rather, Adam would now judge what was good or evil by placing his judgement above God's judgement as to what was right or wrong. Adam himself thus became the 'law of the land' over what God had established.
    At Genesis 2:17 Adam was already taught the evil was death. You eat, you die.

    The 'gods' (lower-case letter 'g') of Psalms 82 I find is referring to human judges. see also Exodus 4:16; Exodus 7:1.
    Human judges because they were to use God's judgements to judge what is right or wrong.

    Any comments about Philippians 3:19.
     
  5. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Agree Jesus had a beginning, According to John at Revelation 3:14 Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God.
    So, only God was before the beginning according to Psalms 90:2
    That means to me that Jesus was Not before the beginning as God was before the beginning.
    Also, when KJV translated John 1:1 they left out the letter 'a, but at Acts of the Apostles 28:6 B they added the 'a'.
    So, even though the same Greek grammar rules applies in both verses KJV made different choices.

    Agree that ALL things were made by Jesus as stated at Colossians 1:15-16
    The pre-human heavenly Jesus is part of the 'us' of Genesis 1:26 before God sent Jesus to Earth.
     
  6. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    Before I log off and run away and hide, let me ask a question.
    To those who believe the trinity, do you know when, how, and where it originated?
     
  7. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    I agree with all you have said here.
     
  8. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    The Ante-Nicene Fathers asserted Christ's deity and spoke of "Father, Son and Holy Spirit", even though their language is not that of the traditional doctrine as formalised in the fourth century.

    Trinity - Wikipedia

    This article on Wikipedia covers it in detail.
     
  9. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    More from that article:

    Tertullian, a Latin theologian who wrote in the early 3rd century, is credited as being the first to use the Latin words "Trinity",[26] "person" and "substance"[27] to explain that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are "one in essence—not one in Person"
     
  10. Tammie

    Tammie Member

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    Gerry said:

    One more thing. John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life.
    No one comes to the Father except through me."
    Why would we need to go 'through' Jesus to get to God if Jesus is God?...

    And …..Neither of us ever had a concept of a trinity until a couple years ago when we decided to try to find a church …..

    For your first question - you can't go through Christ if the Father does not draw you,

    John 6:44 - No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
    In our puffed up minds we think we choose God, but he chooses us.

    John 15:16 - Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

    The trinity is a doctrine and taught from main stream churches
    As far as the trinity, I do not have very much of a concept of this thought either. The Holy Spirit did not become a Father until he had a Son.

    The most important thing, though, is recognizing that Jesus/Yeshua is the Son of God. After this, you can begin your relationship with him....and as you read the scriptures for yourself, the Father will lead you into His truth.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  11. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Well said, Tammie.
     
  12. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    These scriptures give me peace in what I believe.
    Unlike 'tradition', which has been a source of dispute.
    My wife always likes to point out, condemnation and confusion are not from God, but from the other one.
     
  13. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Your wife sounds wise.
     
  14. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    That theory would mean that no person in the Old Testament, knew God.
     
    #74 Desert Snake, Aug 1, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  15. Curious George

    Curious George Veteran Member

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    Wow, that is one hell of an introductory post. Welcome to RF.
     
  16. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    I do.
     
    #76 Rival, Aug 1, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  17. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    So in other words: Yes, he never did a single one of the things messiah is supposed to do. So why should we believe him?
     
  18. Rival

    Rival Noahide
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    I am a Noahide. The Temple is going to be a real, bricks and mortar building in Jerusalem. The same as the other two Temples that preceded it. This is a specific Temple. The Book of Ezekiel has chapters dedicated to it.

    "In the twenty-fifth year of our exile, at the beginning of the year, on the tenth day of the month, in the fourteenth year after the city was struck down, on that very day, the hand of the L-rd was upon me, and He brought me there. He brought me, in visions of G-d, to the land of Israel, and set me down upon a very high mountain, on which was a structure like a city to the south. When He brought me there, a man was there, whose appearance shone like bronze, with a linen cord and a measuring reed in his hand; and he was standing in the gateway. The man said to me, 'Mortal, look closely and listen attentively, and set your mind upon all that I shall show you, for you were brought here in order that I might show it to you; declare all that you see to the house of Israel.'
    Now there was a wall around the outside of the Temple area." - Ezekiel, 40:1-5.


    The rest goes on the describe the Temple, which is being shown where it always will be - in Jerusalem, in Israel.
     
    #78 Rival, Aug 1, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2017
  19. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    No, it wouldn't. The Angel of the Lord and the Commander of the Lord's Host are both thought to be referring to Jesus by many Christian theologians.
     
  20. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    That would mean that you would have to believe that Jesus pre-exists the incarnation in Yisrael, and that Jesus is an angel, not a man, or deity-man. Angels aren't people, they can be mistaken for people.
     
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