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Featured Is Jesus God?.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Gerry, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    Mercy and justice are antithetical, so you've got a contradiction right there. Justice is getting what you deserve. Mercy is the beneficent suspension of justice.

    Furthermore, there is nothing just about eternal torture for failing to believe a poorly made argument for a god, nor any mercy in it being eternal and with zero chance of parole.

    Could you think of anything less just or merciful than that?
     
  2. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    Oops, I can't argue about the mass drowning being pretty rough.
    God obviously had a point.
     
  3. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, I can't see these as even implying Jesus is God, let alone prove it.
    Jesus IS one with the Father, and it is our goal to be the same, but we will not become gods.
    Anyone who sees Jesus sees the Father, because as your third verse says, the Son is the radiance of God's glory.
    Also, we are told that we cannot see the Father, so seeing the Father reflected in Jesus is what we are given.
    Also the third verse says an exact representation of His being, a representation instead of the actual since we are incapable of seeing the actual.

    One more thing. John 14:6
    Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life.
    No one comes to the Father except through me."
    Why would we need to go 'through' Jesus to get to God if Jesus is God?

    I'm not trying to be a pain, just want to understand.
    Some background:
    My wife and I both came to know Jesus, NOT through a church setting. Her, decades ago, and me only a few years.
    Neither of us ever had a concept of a trinity until a couple years ago when we decided to try to find a church.
    We didn't think much of it, until we discovered it was VERY important to the church that we accept it.
    Since I question everything in life, I started to do some research, and that's why I am at this baffling place, trying to figure out why most churches make this point such a big thing when as yet I cannot accept it as truth.
     
  4. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    I would guess for that to be true you would have to disbelieve the entire NT
     
  5. Nathan Malone

    Nathan Malone Member

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    Micah 4:1
    But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

    Firstly, I am guessing you are of the house of Judah? I am Latter-day Saint by religion. We believe many of us are of the house of Ephraim. We have a house of the Lord (temple) in Utah, in fact many of them. It is interesting to note that Utah is named by the government after the Ute Indians, and the name means, 'top of the mountains'. It was established by commandment of the Lord. Many nationalities came to settle in Utah, and visit the temple site year by near. The nations have truly flowed to it; to the place where the saints sing songs of everlasting joy.
     
  6. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Not all churches require you to accept it as truth. As long as you believe in accordance with scripture, John 3 in particular, you are on the right path.

    Did you ask the church members to explain it to you and why it is so important that you believe It?

    A lot of new Christians and older ones as well have a hard time understanding the trinity. Understand that God is very complex. This link addresses the trinity well and may help:

    What does it mean when God said man has become like one of us?
     
  7. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the link to Revelation 3:12.
    That seems to be solid evidence against Jesus being God.
    Jesus refers to 'my God' numerous times, and it makes no sense that God would have a God.
     
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  8. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    But you are obviously aware of what the simple requirement is for you to obtain that mercy. So the choice is yours, not God's.
     
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  9. Nathan Malone

    Nathan Malone Member

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    Firstly, when Jesus in the meridian of time came, he fulfilled his first mission as a Savior. When he returns he will return in all his glory and destroy the wicked Gentile nations for causing the world to sin. Israel will have been gathered by then, and the Messiah will stand upon mount Olivet and cleave it in two. Jews will see him and accept their Messiah. War shall be done away, and the whole world shall worship the Lord their God and know his name.
     
  10. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

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    Well said.
     
  11. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

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    A particular church (that I really liked and attended men's bible study and had many friends) required a signed document to become a member, spelling out your beliefs and stating your responsibilities. I did not join, but have recently moved to a new state. We're attending the same denomination here at the present time, but still looking for another.
     
  12. Nathan Malone

    Nathan Malone Member

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    I think you need to read the rest of my comment which explains how God can be a God of justice and mercy at the same time without contradiction. Don't just read one line. Mercy has become justified by Jesus, an intercessor.

    if we don't accept Gods plan of mercy then we have to live under the laws of justice. If we are punished it won't be because God failed to warn us.
     
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  13. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    You might also want to take a peek at Revelation 3:21 because there are only two (2) thrones mentioned.
    If there was a triune god of three persons to me they would need three (3) thrones to be equals.
     
  14. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Traditional christianity believes that Jesus is God.
    John 10:30
     
    #54 Desert Snake, Jul 31, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
  15. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    In school I think they called it a Ben Franklin list:
    Put what you are taught in one column, and what the Bible teaches in the opposite column. They should match.
    The people of Acts of the Apostles 17:11 searched or researched the Scriptures each day to see if what they were hearing or learning was in harmony with Scripture.

    The Bible is unique in that it has corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages, thus that is why Jesus often prefaced his statements with "I said....", or "It is written....." meaning already written or recorded in the old Hebrew Scriptures. I think even Jesus' mother made about 20 some references to what was already recorded in the Hebrew. Since the Bible is Not written ABC as a dictionary is, then a comprehensive concordance helps puts the Bible in alphabetical order for us, and helps serve as a quick locater of topics or subjects.
     
  16. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member

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    You don't think he could have made that point without killing practically everyone?
     
  17. Nathan Malone

    Nathan Malone Member

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    Psalms 82:1,6
    "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judge the among the gods...I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

    John 10:34-36
    "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"

    1 Corinthians 8:5-6
    "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

    Genesis 3:22
    "And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil."
     
  18. Nathan Malone

    Nathan Malone Member

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    I think the animals were wise than humans by drowning themselves rather than accept evil spirits.
     
  19. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Traditional Christianity or rather what is called 'Christendom' ( so-called Christian but mostly in name only )
    Before John 10:30 doesn't Jesus already say at John 10:29 that his Father is greater than ALL.
    I wonder why people stop at John 10:30 and do Not continue reading down to John 10:36.
    I wonder why people do Not consider what John 1:18 says that No man has seen God at any time.
    If Jesus was God, then how does one explain that people could see Jesus if God can't be seen by man.
    (John 6:46; 1 John 4:12; Exodus 33:20)
    For the record John wrote at John 1:34 that John himself believes Jesus is Son, and repeats that at John 20:31
    For the record John wrote that Nathanael believed Jesus to be Son at John 1:49
    For the record John wrote that Peter as spokesman for the disciple wrote Jesus is Son at John 6:68-69
    For the record John wrote that Martha believed Jesus to be Son at John 11:27
    For the record John wrote that Jesus said his Father was greater than Jesus at John 14:28.
    So, to me first-century Christianity teaches that Jesus is God's Son.
     
  20. The Holy Bottom Burp

    The Holy Bottom Burp Active Member

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    The animals didn't have much choice but to be drowned in a global flood though, correct? No 'wisdom' needed.
    I'm not being flippant, but does your belief mean that all fish are inhabited by evil spirits?
     
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