Is Jesus God?

psychoslice · Feb 5, 2016

Jesus said that he declared the father, he also said the he and the father are one, we are also one with the father, we also can declare the father. Just like electricity that runs through all our household products, the light bulb lights up because of the electricity, the light bold itself isn't the electricity, you could say that it declares the electricity, it shows the electricity through itself the light, and so are we like the bulb, we with God or the Source animating through us, also declared God, or the Source, but we as the mind body organism, just as the bulb aren't God, or in the bulb, electricity.

moorea944 · Feb 5, 2016

james2ko said:
I do not believe in the trinity. YHVH/God is a distributed family name given and used by angels (Eph 3:14-15). . Examples of angels taking on the name YHVH are found in Gen 18, 19 and other scriptures. I believe the created Jesus, not God the Father, was the YHVH you read about in the OT. We've been over this. It seems you keep repeating the same questions. I don't mind answering but it seems you have no interest in learning, only in trapping.

I do not believe in the trinity. YHVH/God is a distributed family name given and used by angels (Eph 3:14-15). . Examples of angels taking on the name YHVH are found in Gen 18, 19 and other scriptures.

I agree

I believe the created Jesus, not God the Father, was the YHVH you read about in the OT.

That completely doesnt make sense. Jesus was foreordained before the world was, but manifested in the last days. Jesus is God's Word manifest in the flesh. So your saying that Jesus is Yahweh..... in the OT, then they split in the NT? One stayed in heaven and then the other went down to earth? You serious?

I don't mind answering but it seems you have no interest in learning, only in trapping.

Not interested in learning? Of course I do. Just not your ways. Trapping? I guess we have the same views on each other then.

Notaclue · Feb 6, 2016

moorea944 said:
A future prophecy of Jesus is found in Isa 11, talks about God giving him seven things "And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD:

Is that what you were talking about?

Yes.

Rev.5:12
saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing.

Rev.7:12. Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might,be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

The Lamb gets the riches, but not the Thanksgiving.

God gets the Thanksgiving but not the riches.

I believe the riches is the Counsel.

Rom.11:34. For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?

Peace.

james2ko · Feb 6, 2016

moorea944 said:
That completely doesnt make sense. Jesus was foreordained before the world was, but manifested in the last days. Jesus is God's Word manifest in the flesh. So your saying that Jesus is Yahweh..... in the OT, then they split in the NT? One stayed in heaven and then the other went down to earth? You serious?

It doesn't make sense because for some reason you believe the term YHVH is only used to identify God the Father. Jesus is not God the Father. In the OT, he is an angel in scripture identified by the family name YHVH/God. In other words, the OT Jesus was "a" YHVH of the family, but not the main YHVH.

You have to think of YHVH as a distributed title utilized by God the Father's sons. But it is also God the Father's name. Similar to my son taking on my name. He is identified as Mr. Smith (fictitious name) and so am I. Though we are both identified as Mr. Smith [YHVH] that does not make us the same person. I am still the elder, wiser, "greater" Smith [YHVH].

Jesus was God the Father's first created YHVH ["Smith"] (Isa 43:10-11; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14). He was also the first and only one of the "lesser" YHVH's [Smiths] to be born of a woman and become "fully" human.

If you agree angels took on the name of YHVH in the OT, than it should make perfect sense for Jesus to have been a created angel also taking on the name YHVH, prior to being born as a human.

Muffled · Feb 6, 2016

moorea944 said:
The Spirit of God in Jesus pre-existed?..... I'm trying to figure out what that really means..... You dont believe in the pre-existence of Jesus (which is a good thing), but God's Spirit pre-existed in Jesus.... who wasnt here yet... Maybe I read that wrong then. The Spirit of God or God's Spirit was always here though.

I believe you read that wrong. The Spirit of God always exists and is joined at conception with the body of Jesus to form the human being of Jesus. What is not joined to the body is The Father. The Father and the Spirit of God in Jesus are one Spirit as Jesus said. (In essence the oneness of God is His Spirit).

Muffled · Feb 6, 2016

james2ko said:
The verb yatzar (formed/created), in vs 10, describes a passive action being performed on the subject EL/God/YHVH. The reflexive pronouns also reflect this. My interpretation is supported grammatically. Thus inherently logical.

I believe you are grammatically correct and wrong anyway because you have ignored that little word "not."

Muffled · Feb 6, 2016

Notaclue said:
Num.23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

1Tim.2:5. For there is one God, and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:

Christ Jesus is a Man !

I believe there are two concept of man. One is that of a created body and another of a created spirit. Most people would recognize the former but not the latter. God is not a physical body but that does not mean that He can't inhabit one. God is not a created spirit so the Spirit in Jesus is a God spirit and not a man spirit.

moorea944 · Feb 6, 2016

Muffled said:
I believe you read that wrong. The Spirit of God always exists and is joined at conception with the body of Jesus to form the human being of Jesus. What is not joined to the body is The Father. The Father and the Spirit of God in Jesus are one Spirit as Jesus said. (In essence the oneness of God is His Spirit).

The Spirit of God always exists

I totall agree. God's spirit is in us too.

and is joined at conception with the body of Jesus to form the human being of Jesus.

Well, we know in Luke 1, "The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee". We see that the Holy Spirit is the power of God that went into Mary. God's spirit has always been here, was here at creation, before and after.

james2ko · Feb 6, 2016

Muffled said:
I believe you are being illogical: "no god formed" does not equate to "God formed." I believe you are grammatically correct and wrong anyway because you have ignored that little word "not."

No one is ignoring anything. You are incorrectly isolating the phrase "no god formed" from its antecedent phrase "besides me". The two are interpreted together. For instance, If I say to my son, " Before me, you had no Father. Utilizing your isolation technique would produce the illogical thought my son never had a Father. The phrase "before me" completes and clarifies the otherwise illogical thought to mean my son had no Father before I was born.

Similarly, the EL In Isa 43:10 is telling Israel they had no EL before he was formed [born].

Notaclue · Feb 6, 2016

Muffled said:
I believe you read that wrong. The Spirit of God always exists and is joined at conception with the body of Jesus to form the human being of Jesus. What is not joined to the body is The Father. The Father and the Spirit of God in Jesus are one Spirit as Jesus said. (In essence the oneness of God is His Spirit).

Jn.4:24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

Spirit of Spirit.......Spirit of God.

Is.48:16. Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

and now the Lord GOD, 'and' his Spirit, hath sent me.

Gal.4:6. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"7Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

and if a son, then an heir through God.

Peace.

Notaclue · Feb 6, 2016

Muffled said:
I believe you read that wrong. The Spirit of God always exists and is joined at conception with the body of Jesus to form the human being of Jesus. What is not joined to the body is The Father. The Father and the Spirit of God in Jesus are one Spirit as Jesus said. (In essence the oneness of God is His Spirit).

In.17:20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

that they also may be one in us:

Does this also make us God ?

Muffled · Feb 9, 2016

Notaclue said:
In.17:20. Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

that they also may be one in us:

Does this also make us God ?

I believe it makes us God to the extent we allow it to be so. Otherwise Jesus would not have to pray for it to be so.THis is the Paraclete, third member of the Trinity.

Muffled · Feb 9, 2016

Notaclue said:
Jn.4:24. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

Spirit of Spirit.......Spirit of God.

Is.48:16. Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

and now the Lord GOD, 'and' his Spirit, hath sent me.

Gal.4:6. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"7Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

and if a son, then an heir through God.

Peace.

I don't believe I know what you are trying to say.

Muffled · Feb 9, 2016

james2ko said:
No one is ignoring anything. You are incorrectly isolating the phrase "no god formed" from its antecedent phrase "besides me". The two are interpreted together. For instance, If I say to my son, " Before me, you had no Father. Utilizing your isolation technique would produce the illogical thought my son never had a Father. The phrase "before me" completes and clarifies the otherwise illogical thought to mean my son had no Father before I was born.

Similarly, the EL In Isa 43:10 is telling Israel they had no EL before he was formed [born].

I believe you are in error. The simile does not work. If the simile were that God exists and none existed before Him there would be no problem with the simile but that is not the case. The word formed makes a difference. For instance one can assume that a father is a father in the usual way but how can one make assumptions about God? If God had said He was formed it would be different but He said that He was not formed. Or are you going to argue that gods are like God?

james2ko · Feb 9, 2016

Muffled said:
I believe you are in error. The simile does not work. If the simile were that God exists and none existed before Him there would be no problem with the simile but that is not the case. The word formed makes a difference. For instance one can assume that a father is a father in the usual way but how can one make assumptions about God? If God had said He was formed it would be different but He said that He was not formed. Or are you going to argue that gods are like God?

What simile ? There is no simile in Isa 43:10. A simile is a comparison of two things. No comparison is being made . What is being made is an assertion. The EL asserts before him ---prior to him --no EL was formed. A parsing of the verb "formed" reveals a reflexive component pointing back to the subject -EL - being created by a third party. He is claiming to be Israel's one and only created EL/YHVH.

Notaclue · Feb 10, 2016

Muffled said:
believe it makes us God to the extent we allow it to be so. Otherwise Jesus would not have to pray for it to be so.THis is the Paraclete, third member of the Trinity.

I believe it makes us God to the extent we allow it to be so. Otherwise Jesus would not have to pray for it to be so.THis is the Paraclete, third member of the Trinity.

I believe it makes us God to the extent we allow it to be so.

Have you allowed yourself to be God ?

djhwoodwerks · Feb 15, 2016

te_lanus said:
For me Jesus is a demigod, his Dad was a God, and his mom was a human. He didn't exist before his birth.

Notaclue said:
I believe it makes us God to the extent we allow it to be so. Otherwise Jesus would not have to pray for it to be so.THis is the Paraclete, third member of the Trinity.

I believe it makes us God to the extent we allow it to be so.

Have you allowed yourself to be God ?

I take by your post you are not believing this is possible?

John 4:24 (ESVST) 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

Jesus said God is Spirit, correct?

Gen 1:26-27 (ESVST) 26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Since God is Spirit, what likeness and image were we created in? Is it that we "look" like God? Is God a fleshly Spirit? He gave man dominion over the earth, what is dominion?

Notaclue · Feb 15, 2016

djhwoodwerks said:
I take by your post you are not believing this is possible?

John 4:24 (ESVST) 24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

Jesus said God is Spirit, correct?

Gen 1:26-27 (ESVST) 26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Since God is Spirit, what likeness and image were we created in? Is it that we "look" like God? Is God a fleshly Spirit? He gave man dominion over the earth, what is dominion?

Col.1:13. who(God) delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love;
14in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins:
15who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto(In) him;

15who is the image of the 'invisible' God,

1Tim.1:17. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, "invisible," the only God,

(Quote)
Is God a fleshly Spirit?

Num.23:19. God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Hath he said, and will he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and will he not make it good?

Peace.

djhwoodwerks · Feb 15, 2016

Notaclue said:
Col.1:13. who(God) delivered us out of the power of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of his love;
14in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins:
15who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto(In) him;

15who is the image of the 'invisible' God,

1Tim.1:17. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, "invisible," the only God,

(Quote)
Is God a fleshly Spirit?

Num.23:19. God is not a man, that he should lie, Neither the son of man, that he should repent: Hath he said, and will he not do it? Or hath he spoken, and will he not make it good?

Peace.

Are you trying to make a point here?

Notaclue · Feb 16, 2016

djhwoodwerks said:
Are you trying to make a point here?

I love to answer questions about the Bible.

Peace.

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