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Is Jesus God?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Orbit, Feb 7, 2015.

  1. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    False. Every thing I stated I can back with credible modern scholars.

    Explain why proto Israelites after 1200 BC use the Canaanite alphabet, Canaanite pottery, and Canaanite deities, and spoke the Canaanite native tongue ???????????????????
     
  2. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    Your not telling me anything backed by modern education.

    Your only making uneducated apologetically biased assumptions.
     
  3. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    No you wont. :eek: You dont have a clue about his work.:rolleyes: Your just spouting off things you are literally blind to in severe desperation here. o_O


    He backs me not you in many places.

    Yahweh and the Gods of Canaan, for example, putting forward the view that the religion of the Israelites had evolved from polytheism to a monotheism that saw God acting in history—a view fully in accordance with the documentary hypothesis and the mainstream opinions of the preceding two centuries of biblical criticism.
     
  4. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    His work is described here as well

    Albright used this influence to advocate "biblical archaeology", in which the archaeologist's task, according to fellow Biblical archaeologist William Dever, is seen as being "to illuminate, to understand, and, in their greatest excesses, to "prove" the bible.".

    Albright's methods and conclusions have been increasingly questioned

    William Dever claims that "[Albright's] central theses have all been overturned, partly by further advances in Biblical criticism, but mostly by the continuing archaeological research of younger Americans and Israelis to whom he himself gave encouragement and momentum ...

    Biblical scholar Thomas L. Thompson contends that the methods of "biblical archaeology" have also become outmoded: "[Wright and Albright's] historical interpretation can make no claim to be objective, proceeding as it does from a methodology which distorts its data by selectivity which is hardly representative, which ignores the enormous lack of data for the history of the early second millennium, and which wilfully establishes hypotheses on the basis of unexamined biblical texts, to be proven by such (for this period) meaningless mathematical criteria as the 'balance of probability' ..."[


    Of course of you had ANY HISTORICAL EDUCATION what so ever, you would know all this.
     
    #784 outhouse, Mar 17, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  5. nothead

    nothead Active Member

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    You still don't understand, ADNI is never used of God, who is ADONAI.
     
  6. OneThatGotAway

    OneThatGotAway Servant of Yahweh God Almighty

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    Well that will be your little secret.
     
  7. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    Its not mine. he was an Aramaic Jew. His language was Aramaic not Hebrew.

    So his real name "probably" was Isho in his native tongue, and that is more plausible then Yeshua his Hebrew name.
     
  8. kepha31

    kepha31 Active Member

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    I never said Scott Hahn is a historical scholar.*EDIT*. If he is not a scholar, why would the Religious Department at Yale (not a Catholic institution) publish his book? There seems to be no meeting on any common ground with you. You are the one that brought up Yale from a list of ivy league institutions, being your pillar and ground of truth.
    scholar - definition of scholar by The Free Dictionary
    Scott Hahn is a university professor, author of 18 books, can be found on you tube and fits the bill of "scholar" according to the definition presented in the above link. I said, "world renowned scholar". He travels all over the world, but even that's not good enough because you couldn't find it in the infallible wikipedia.

    When I point out the logical fallacies you have committed concerning paganism, you insult my intelligence by telling me I should take a class on logic, but give NO supporting documentation concerning paganism in Catholic doctrine or practice. What ever you or anyone else can scrape up, fails scrutiny. I think The Hound of Heaven is nipping at your heels so you run faster.

    "Here we call it the 'Fallacy of the Uniform Method of Science' -- the fallacy of taking one science as the norm, and making it the measure, the guide, the interpreter, and the inspiration of every other science." (Philosophy of Religion, 185)

    Physics should be treated as physics, mathematics as mathematics, and especially, metaphysics as metaphysics. One should not use a scientific or mathematical method to do metaphysics and vice versa. As Etienne Gilson said,

    "Theology, logic, physics, biology, psychology, sociology, economics, are fully competent to solve their own problems by their own methods…no particular science is competent to either solve metaphysical problems, or to judge their metaphysical solutions." (The Unity of Philosophical Experience, page 249)
    Science and Religion by A.L.

    Taking history/historicity or what ever you want to call it as the norm, and making it the measure, the guide, the interpreter, and the inspiration of every other science IS A FALLACY. I will let the readers decide who is being dishonest.

    Any "historian" who denies the Resurrection of Christ is not a historian, but a propagandist, IMHO.
    Briefly, therefore, the fact of Christ's Resurrection is attested by more than 500 eyewitnesses, whose experience, simplicity, and uprightness of life rendered them incapable of inventing such a fable, who lived at a time when any attempt to deceive could have been easily discovered, who had nothing in this life to gain, but everything to lose by their testimony, whose moral courage exhibited in their apostolic life can be explained only by their intimate conviction of the objective truth of their message. Again the fact of Christ's Resurrection is attested by the eloquent silence of the Synagogue which had done everything to prevent deception, which could have easily discovered deception, if there had been any, which opposed only sleeping witnesses to the testimony of the Apostles, which did not punish the alleged carelessness of the official guard, and which could not answer the testimony of the Apostles except by threatening them "that they speak no more in this name to any man" (Acts 4:17). Finally the thousands and millions, both Jews and Gentiles, who believed the testimony of the Apostles in spite of all the disadvantages following from such a belief, in short the origin of the Church, requires for its explanation the reality of Christ's Resurrection, for the rise of the Church without the Resurrection would have been a greater miracle than the Resurrection itself.

    CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Resurrection of Jesus Christ


    I will be focusing my time and energy in the Catholic DIR from now on where it won't be wasted on forum bullies.
    Good day.​
     
    #788 kepha31, Mar 17, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2015
  9. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    He is a theologian, just another apologist author who IS NOT a biblical scholar.

    No where in his wiki page does it describe him as such, and the fact you posted piratebay as a source proves your desperation.
     
  10. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    Both are apologetic rhetoric. Not a credible source for historical studies.

    The link you posted is very fanatical trying to steer people from credible education found at the best universities.


    I believe I may have suggested this to you a long time ago. Might be another thread, im not sure.



    But I do know I told you faith is fine in moderation, and all you had to say was I believe Jesus is god or I have faith he is god, and I have no problem with that.

    Its when you make claims of fact or certainty with no credible sources, that I choose to respond.
     
  11. JM2C

    JM2C CHRISTIAN

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    Please try to read and understand what I’m trying to say here.

    There is no VOWEL POINTS in the ancient Hebrew text and the dead sea scroll of Isaiah’ 21:16 where it says “Lord” as “ADNY” is the same as the one in Psalm 110:1 where the “Lord” REFERRING TO THE Lord Jesus Christ, after the LORD[YHWH], was change BY THE MASORITES to “adoni” by adding vowel points and therefore translated it to “master”.

    IOW, there was no “adoni/master” in the Ancient Hebrew text base on the Dead Sea Scroll, but “ADNY” WHICH MEANS THE “LORD” OR GOD.
     
  12. kepha31

    kepha31 Active Member

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    "Credible sources" and "best universities" that deny the Resurrection contrary to the historical facts of certainty at hand are blind revisionists with an agenda. One more time: "...for the rise of the Church without the Resurrection would have been a greater miracle than the Resurrection itself." That is a powerful, truthful statement that you cry "apologetic rhetoric" because you think the Catholic Encyclopedia is not a credible source.

    The CE is a starting point for further study and not intended to be an end point of doctrine, a mistake the Christian Taliban often make. Many, if not most, of the author's hold Ph.D.s (and not all Catholic BTW) in their respective disciplines but that's not good enough for you because its a Catholic Encyclopedia. That's prejudice, not scholarship. TRUTH STANDS ON ITS OWN MERITS OR IT'S NOT TRUTH. That's why Catholicism accepts truths REGARDLESS of the source. Your acceptance of the truth is DEPENDENT on the source.

    You don't like Scott Hahn because he is in fact, a BIBLICAL SCHOLAR, and fits the dictionary definition of scholar. You say he is no scholar, perhaps out of blind prejudice. Some "credible sources" and "best universities" can be bastions of anti-Catholic bigotry so waving that flag in my face doesn't cut it. (BTW, the University of Notre Dame has fallen under the heel of cultural dictators and no longer Catholic in the minds of the faithful)

    Truth is objective, not subjective. Subjective truth leads to moral relativism, an anti-Christ of our times.

    Your response to my question about Dei Verbum was another mindless cheap shot and beneath the dignity of anyone claiming to know something about biblical history. Contributions from the most educated minds in the world from a variety of disciplines are behind the drafts of church documents followed by many stages of discernment and re-writes. But you have to insult them because they don't line up with American left/lib secular intelligensia. I appealed to your knowledge to point out historical errors; your refusal to do so is not surprising. Dei Verbum is a constitutional document that teaches the truth about Divine Revelation, and if one cannot receive the truth, it's because the truth is not in them.

    file:///C:/Users/temp/Downloads/Anderson_sbts_0207D_10031.pdf

    Your pope John Dominic Crossman is one of the founders of the Jesus Seminar, a left/lib think tank dedicated to debunking Christ's Divinity and Resurrection. To him, Jesus' body was eaten by a pack of dogs. Funny how he was the first to notice after 2000 years. If that isn't revisionsim I don't know what is. He may be a scholar, but that is no immunity from being a heresiarch.
     
    #792 kepha31, Mar 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2015
  13. JM2C

    JM2C CHRISTIAN

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    Do you?

    And you think William Albright is old. William Foxwell Albright (May 24, 1891 – September 19, 1971)[1] was an Americanarchaeologist, biblical scholar, philologist, and expert on ceramics.

    Take a look at you scholars Julius Wellhausen(May 17, 1844 – January 7, 1918) and Thomas Hobbes of Malmesbury (/hɒbz/; 5 April 1588 – 4 December 1679) Look at this guys compare to William Albright. What they have in 1588 and 1844? They’re lucky if they have a wagon or a horse to pull the wagon back then.
     
  14. JM2C

    JM2C CHRISTIAN

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    The true Christians were the true followers of Christ during the apostle’s writings and those who followed or adhere to these writings today.

    You think that Christianity started only after the bible was canonized but what you did not understand is it was the beginning of pluralism by Constantine, i.e., mixing Christianity with paganism. That’s probably the reason why people are so confused today about the true identity of Christianity. If one says s/he is a Christian but bow or worship other things other than God, then one might think all Christians are like this. A true Christian should only follow Christ.

    JN 16:26 “ In that day you will ask in My name, and I do not say to you that I will request of the Father on your behalf;

    True Christians will be able to present their own petitions directly to God in Jesus name something the Israelites in OT could not do. The Israelites in the OT must use a high priest to present their petitions before God.
     
  15. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    To be a biblical scholar you have to be a historian :rolleyes: they are one in the same. You should know this.

    Because he is a theologian author. His credibility lies in theology.

    Its why he is not allowed to teach classes on the history of the NT
     
  16. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    People did not follow Jesus because of a resurrection that could have been perceived as spiritual at first and evolved into a physical one.

    They followed him because of his perceived selfless actions in the temple taking on the corruption by himself, in front of half a million people.

    The original gospel of mark, barley even makes mention of that perceived event, not as if he witnessed the event or even like that community knew anything about it.

    It was not central to the movement at all.

    It is not a historical fact.
     
  17. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    Both of their work is noted, and both have been expanded upon. Or thrown out where needed. Knowledge grows.

    That's nothing though, I can show work from that period by a guy who rode a horse, and his work is still a great foundation for study on Genesis. Hermann Gunkel 1901.


    The Legends of Genesis: I. The Significance and Scope of the Legends
     
  18. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    LOL that claims itself as dogma :rolleyes:
     
  19. outhouse

    outhouse Atheistically

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    Please go back and find one of my statements where I said that. I do require honesty when debating, so please go back and find ANYTHING where I even implied that.
     
  20. kepha31

    kepha31 Active Member

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    Very good! You read the title!
    What's the matter? Did the light hurt your eyes?
     
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