Is Jesus God?

[katiemygirl]

It is saying that all was made through him and for him.
John 1:3 American Standard Version
All things were made through him; and without him was not anything made that hath been made.

Jesus was with God in the beginning.Read Proverbs 8:22

Proverbs 8:22 Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Lord Jehovah created me at the beginning of his creation and from before all of his works.”

Jesus was with God in the garden of eden when man was being created.
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,

I'd say you have a very skewed interpretation of Proverbs 8:22.

You are a JW. You know as well as I do that you follow Watchtower teachings.

Jesus was not a created being. That's pure nonsense!

Jesus is God, and always has been. I don't need anyone to teach me that. The Bible flat out says the word was God in John 1:1.

 

[Nada]

If you say you go by the Scriptures, then how can you say Jesus is not God when John said the word was God?

Many men were called gods.This was a title of respect or power.Like My Lord.


John 10:34 New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '?

Even Moses was called a God.

Exodus 7:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.

Jesus might have been called a god, or God by some translations,but the truth of the matter is that he was not God the Almighty.Jesus is never referred to as the Almighty.Only the supreme being can hold that title.

Jesus was called Mighty God.Never Almighty God.


Isaiah 9:6New International Version (NIV)
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

It never says ALMIGHTY GOD.

Mighty:possessing great and impressive power or strength, esp on account of size:

Almighty:having complete power; omnipotent:God almighty.

 

[Nada]

I'd say you have a very skewed interpretation of Proverbs 8:22.

You are a JW. You know as well as I do that you follow Watchtower teachings.

Jesus was not a created being. That's pure nonsense!

Jesus is God, and always has been. I don't need anyone to teach me that. The Bible flat out says the word was God in John 1:1.

First,your approach is not a friendly one.Second,I am not a JW.I do not follow teachings that come out of the Watchtower.I read Watchtower magazines for insightful points that can be found in the holy scriptures, and interesting facts.Jesus was created.For you to state that this is nonsense is to disagree with the word of God.

Colossians 1:15,16. 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Do you know what Firstborn means? It means to be born first.Over all creation means he was the first of all created things in this universe.God the Almighty was not created for He is eternal.Jesus was created according to the holy scriptures.God was not.Jesus was born first.God was never born.

Jesus is not God the Almighty.

 

[katiemygirl]

Many men were called gods.This was a title of respect or power.Like My Lord.


John 10:34 New American Standard Bible
Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '?

Even Moses was called a God.

Exodus 7:1 Then the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet.

Jesus might have been called a god, or God by some translations,but the truth of the matter is that he was not God the Almighty.Jesus is never referred to as the Almighty.Only the supreme being can hold that title.

Jesus was called Mighty God.Never Almighty God.


Isaiah 9:6New International Version (NIV)
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

It never says ALMIGHTY GOD.

Mighty:possessing great and impressive power or strength, esp on account of size:

Almighty:having complete power; omnipotent:God almighty.

You said many men were called god. Please cite the verses.

Moses was not called a god. God told Moses He would make him LIKE God, and He did, giving Moses power to to perform miracles only God could perform.

Revelation 1

Jesus is the Almighty. He is the Alpha and Omega. It is Jesus who is coming with the clouds in verse 7, and every eye will see Him, even those who PIERCED Him.

Revelation 1:8.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Context is everything. This passage is about Jesus.

 

[Nada]

Moses was not called a god. God told Moses He would make him LIKE God, and He did, giving Moses power to to perform miracles only God could perform.

Revelation 1

Jesus is the Almighty. He is the Alpha and Omega. It is Jesus who is coming with the clouds in verse 7, and every eye will see Him, even those who PIERCED Him.

Revelation 1:8.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.” This is the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Context is everything. This passage is about Jesus.

You are incorrect.How can a being that was created, and called firstborn, be God the Almighty,who is an eternal being?

 

[katiemygirl]

First,your approach is not a friendly one.Second,I am not a JW.I do not follow teachings that come out of the Watchtower.I read Watchtower magazines for insightful points that can be found in the holy scriptures, and interesting facts.Jesus was created.For you to state that this is nonsense is to disagree with the word of God.

Colossians 1:15,16. 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Do you know what Firstborn means? It means to be born first.Over all creation means he was the first of all created things in this universe.God the Almighty was not created for He is eternal.Jesus was created according to the holy scriptures.God was not.Jesus was born first.God was never born.

Jesus is not God the Almighty.

Firstborn doesn't mean what you are suggesting. John 1:3 and Col. 1:16 both name Jesus as creator of all things. Jesus cannot be both creator and created.

John 1:1 clearly says "and the word was God." God is not a created being.

Jesus is firstborn from the dead (1 Cor. 1:15). Nowhere are we told Jesus was the first created.

There is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn," and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used here.

The Greek word prototokos (firstborn) can mean firstborn in a family, or it can be a title of preeminence.

I don't mean to seem unfriendly. I apologize if I came across that way. I am concerned, however, that you would put your trust and your eternal future into the hands of men. I suggest you abandon the Watchtower. It is a proven fact that their literature is loaded with contradictions, and let's face it. The authors are mere men. We should never put our trust in anyone other than our God. If you stick to God's word alone, you can't go wrong. Let the Holy Spirit guide you to the truth.

 

[katiemygirl]

You are incorrect.How can a being that was created, and called firstborn, be God the Almighty,who is an eternal being?

Well, you will hopefully get the opportunity to ask that question someday.

I only know what the Scriptures say. You assume firstborn means created, but that is not the definition of the word.

I've already shown you Jesus is Lord God Almighty in Revelation 1:8.

You have the freedom to believe the way you choose. We all do.

I would like to discuss Prov. 8:22 with you further, but I cannot until later today.

I would ask you who the speaker is in this verse, and where in the passage you learn who the speaker is.

 

[Katzpur]

It simply says "and the word was God."

And then it says "the Word was with God." There were two individuals if one was with the other, and they were both identified as "God."

 

[Nada]

Firstborn doesn't mean what you are suggesting. John 1:3 and Col. 1:16 both name Jesus as creator of all things. Jesus cannot be both creator and created.

John 1:1 clearly says "and the word was God." God is not a created being.

Jesus is firstborn from the dead (1 Cor. 1:15). Nowhere are we told Jesus was the first created.

There is a Greek word for "first created," and it was in use at the time of Paul's writing to the Colossians. He did not use it here. The Greek for "firstborn" is proto with tikto which would give us "firstborn," and that is what we find here in Colossians 1:15. The Greek for "first created" would be proto with ktizo, and it is not used here.

The Greek word prototokos (firstborn) can mean firstborn in a family, or it can be a title of preeminence.

I don't mean to seem unfriendly. I apologize if I came across that way. I am concerned, however, that you would put your trust and your eternal future into the hands of men. I suggest you abandon the Watchtower. It is a proven fact that their literature is loaded with contradictions, and let's face it. The authors are mere men. We should never put our trust in anyone other than our God. If you stick to God's word alone, you can't go wrong. Let the Holy Spirit guide you to the truth.

It is you who are not seeing the obvious sister.Allow me to elaborate.Jesus did not exist until he was created by God the Almighty.Jesus was created a spirit form before he became Jesus on earth much later.He was beside God when all was created.Jesus is God's first creation and only begotten Son.This means that it was just God and Jesus alone.After God created Jesus,the spirit,then God went on to create everything else by way of Jesus,through him and for him as Col 1:15,16 points out. So everything else after Jesus,like the universe and angels,were made by God and Jesus together.God has the power, and Jesus worked along side of Him.

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
This clearly states that it was given to Jesus.It had to belong to someone else in order for it to be given.
Only the one with all authority can give it to someone else.

God the Almighty created Jesus personally.By Himself.That is why Jesus is called only begotten Son.
All others are called sons, or children of God.Only Jesus holds the title of only begotten Son when it comes to first in creation.

Ps.No need to apologize.It ia alright.

 

[Nada]

Well, you will hopefully get the opportunity to ask that question someday.

I only know what the Scriptures say. You assume firstborn means created, but that is not the definition of the word.

I've already shown you Jesus is Lord God Almighty in Revelation 1:8.

You have the freedom to believe the way you choose. We all do.

I would like to discuss Prov. 8:22 with you further, but I cannot until later today.

I would ask you who the speaker is in this verse, and where in the passage you learn who the speaker is.

I assume nothing.There is the correct answer, and then there is mans opinions and self interpretations sister.

Genesis 40:8 "We both had dreams," they answered, "but there is no one to interpret them." Then Joseph said to them, "Do not interpretations belong to God? Tell me your dreams."

 

[Nada]

Well, you will hopefully get the opportunity to ask that question someday.

I only know what the Scriptures say. You assume firstborn means created, but that is not the definition of the word.

I've already shown you Jesus is Lord God Almighty in Revelation 1:8.

You have the freedom to believe the way you choose. We all do.

I would like to discuss Prov. 8:22 with you further, but I cannot until later today.

I would ask you who the speaker is in this verse, and where in the passage you learn who the speaker is.

No sister,Revelation 1:8 does not pertain to Jesus Christ.It is speaking of Jehovah God the Almighty.In Revelation 1 it speaks of Jesus Christ being the first and the last.This does not mean he is God the Almighty.What it speaks of is Jesus Christ being the first human to be raised from the dead by God the Almighty to everlasting life,and the last to be resurrected by God personally.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”


When God the Almighty is called the first and the last,this refers to there not being a God before Him, and there will not be one after Him.In the book of Revelation we have Jesus Christ,John and Jehovah God speaking.

 

[Nada]

And then it says "the Word was with God." There were two individuals if one was with the other, and they were both identified as "God."

One is spoken of as not being equal to the other.

 

[Orbit]

Sorry, "obvious" wasn't the appropriate word. I guess what I'm saying is, what is your independent evaluation of the scriptures regarding this issue, without the denominational spin?

I am interested in knowing which denominations teach this.

 

[katiemygirl]

And then it says "the Word was with God." There were two individuals if one was with the other, and they were both identified as "God."

Two persons, ONE God in John 1:1.

 

[katiemygirl]

One is spoken of as not being equal to the other.

Yet they are spoken of as being equal in Philippians 2:6. Jesus did not consider being equal with God as something to hold onto. Instead He emptied Himself, taking on the nature of a servant.

 

[Smart_Guy]

God the Almighty does not have a God for He is the Almighty.Jesus clearly makes it known that he worships God the Almighty and is a servant of God.

Matthew 26:39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."

So here we have Jesus praying to God and asking permission.Jesus also makes it clear who's will it is.

Here Jesus is stating who is in charge and the Almighty.

John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

So we have Jesus making it known that God the Almighty is his father and God.

This is a clear explanations with direct pen-pointing words. I still have a confusion, if I may ask; does (or do you believe so) "Son of God" here mean a begotten son or a figurative son as in all (or a chosen) people are the sons of God?

Much obliged.

 

[Katzpur]

Two persons, ONE God in John 1:1.

Persons? Sure, I can go along with that. (Actually, when it gets right down to it, I don't believe you think the Father is a person at all. Wouldn't you say He's more of an invisible force than a person?) EIther way... Is each one fully God, independent of the others. Or do you need all three to have one God?

 

[Nada]

Yet they are spoken of as being equal in Philippians 2:6. Jesus did not consider being equal with God as something to hold onto. Instead He emptied Himself, taking on the nature of a servant.

Your interpretation of that passage is not correct sister.It is a misconception based on a mistranslation.If we go to the original language it was written in,Koine Greek,and see what it really is saying,we can come to fully understand the truth.I will use the Emphatic Diaglott to prove my point.

Philippians 2:6 "who though being in God's form,yet did not meditate a usurpation to be like God,"

You see,although Jesus possessed God's qualities, and was perfect,also having powers,he in no way thought to himself as an equal to God.When it means God's form,it does not mean Jesus looked like God on earth.God is a spirit form.He cannot be seen by human eyes.What it truly means is that Jesus is made in the likeness of God.Meaning he has his attributes.God's characteristics.So what ever it is you see Jesus doing is what God would do.Jesus is God's representative here on earth.

Another thing,if we read the passage in it's entirety,we can get a full understanding of what is really being said.If you want to see,please follow this link.Start with ch.2:1-11.

The emphatic diaglott: containing the original Greek text of what is commonly styled the New Testament (according to the recension of J.J. Griesbach) with an interlineary word for word English translation; a new emphatic version, based on the interlineary translation, on the renderings of eminent critics, and on the various readings of the Vatican manuscript no. 1209 in the Vatican Library; together with illustrative and explanatory foot notes, and a copious selection of references; to the whole of which is added a valuable alphabetical appendix

 

[Nada]

This is a clear explanations with direct pen-pointing words. I still have a confusion, if I may ask; does (or do you believe so) "Son of God" here mean a begotten son or a figurative son as in all (or a chosen) people are the sons of God?

Much obliged.

Jesus is the literal Son of God, according to the holy scriptures pertaining to the God of Israel.Jehovah God the Almighty created Jesus as his first creation and only begotten Son.Jesus was always with God after he was created.He was as a master workman along side of God when the universe was being created.Everything that was created, after Jesus was created,was done by God, but through Jesus Christ.Meaning that those like angels and humans were not called only begotten sons of God, but sons of God.Only Jesus Christ holds that title of only begotten Son of God.Meaning he is God's literal Son.God the Almighty made Him personally.Everything after Jesus was made by God with Jesus.

Just as Abraham had Ishmael first, and then 14 years later had Isaac.Even though Ishmael was born first,it was Isaac who was called the only begotten Son.The reason why is because Ishmael was born from an Egyptian slave named Hagar, who was Abrahams concubine.Isaac was born of Abrahams real wife named Sarah.

Hebrews 11:17. 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;18 it was he to whom it was said, "IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED."…

Do you see the similarities between Abraham giving up his only begotten Son Isaac as a sacrifice, and God the Almighty giving up His only Begotten Son, Jesus, as a ransom sacrifice for all of mankind?

 

[Smart_Guy]

Jesus is the literal Son of God, according to the holy scriptures pertaining to the God of Israel.Jehovah God the Almighty created Jesus as his first creation and only begotten Son.Jesus was always with God after he was created.He was as a master workman along side of God when the universe was being created.Everything that was created, after Jesus was created,was done by God, but through Jesus Christ.Meaning that those like angels and humans were not called only begotten sons of God, but sons of God.Only Jesus Christ holds that title of only begotten Son of God.Meaning he is God's literal Son.God the Almighty made Him personally.Everything after Jesus was made by God with Jesus.

Just as Abraham had Ishmael first, and then 14 years later had Isaac.Even though Ishmael was born first,it was Isaac who was called the only begotten Son.The reason why is because Ishmael was born from an Egyptian slave named Hagar, who was Abrahams concubine.Isaac was born of Abrahams real wife named Sarah.

Hebrews 11:17. 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;18 it was he to whom it was said, "IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED."…

Do you see the similarities between Abraham giving up his only begotten Son Isaac as a sacrifice, and God the Almighty giving up His only Begotten Son, Jesus, as a ransom sacrifice for all of mankind?

That's interesting, thank you

Is this (part) of the Trinity, or is it a completely different Christian view?