1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Is Jesus coming between 2030 and 2033?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Teritos, Apr 6, 2021 at 12:53 PM.

Tags:
  1. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Mihi Quaestio Factus Sum

    Joined:
    May 18, 2014
    Messages:
    2,751
    Ratings:
    +1,321
    Religion:
    Ordinariate Catholic
    What good is end times speculation, when you have no assurance you'll be here tomorrow?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    22,476
    Ratings:
    +6,360
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    So you are going to believe what Christianity has taught for centuries even if it is not true?
    I know that is difficult for a Christian imagine but please bear in mind that it is not only Baha'is who are saying this.

    Mind you we are not saying that the Bible is not true and we are not saying that early Christianity was not true and we are not saying that Jesus was not a Manifestation of God who sacrificed Himself for humanity. We are only saying that many of the Christian beliefs that emerged later are not true. Obviously this is a big subject.
    The Baha'is have no plan to convert anyone because we firmly believe that everyone has to choose what to believe using their own free will. We have been charged with investigating the truth for ourselves and making our own decision and we are all responsible for what we believe. We are never supposed ti believe something just because someone else believes it or disbelieve it because not many people believe it. All of us are accountable to God for what we believed on Judgment Day.

    “If, in the Day when all the peoples of the earth will be gathered together, any man should, whilst standing in the presence of God, be asked: “Wherefore hast thou disbelieved in My Beauty and turned away from My Self,” and if such a man should reply and say: “Inasmuch as all men have erred, and none hath been found willing to turn his face to the Truth, I, too, following their example, have grievously failed to recognize the Beauty of the Eternal,” such a plea will, assuredly, be rejected. For the faith of no man can be conditioned by any one except himself.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143
    Baha'is have no ambitions except to do what we have been charged to do. Right now most Baha'is are busy building and sustaining their own communities. We are also supposed to carry the message of Baha'u'llah just as the disciples of Jesus did in the early days, but we are in no way responsible for what people decide after they hear the message. "For the faith of no man can be conditioned by any one except himself.”

    Moreover, we are not worried how small the Baha'i Faith is because we believe that eventually everyone will know and once they know who Baha'u'llah was they will voluntarily choose to become Baha'is.

    “Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.”Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248

    How large do you think Christianity was in the beginning?

    “Just how small was the Christian movement in the first century is clear from the calculations of the sociologist R Stark (1996:5-7; so too Hopkins 1998:192-193).Stark begins his analysis with a rough estimation of six million Christians in the Roman Empire (or about ten percent of the total population) at the start of the fourth century... There were 1,000 Christians in the year 40, 1,400 Christians in 50, 1,960 Christians in 60, 2,744 Christians in 70, 3,842 Christians in 80, 5,378 Christians in 90 and 7,530 Christians at the end of the first century.

    These figures are very suggestive, and reinforce the point that in its initial decades the Christian movement represented a tiny fraction of the ancient world.”

    How many Jews became Christians in the first century?
     
  3. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    22,476
    Ratings:
    +6,360
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    With all due respect there is no reason to believe that Jesus spoke any of those words since in Revelations.
    There is also no reason to believe that Revelations was about Jesus.
    It is thus a faith-based belief that was handed down through the generations and believed unquestionably.

    "There is a lot of debate on this, but there are a few things that we can say about the author of Revelation.

    The author claims he is writing from the island of Patmos, and calls himself John, but John was a very common name in this time period so that doesn’t tell us much. The two Johns that spring to mind is John the disciple of Jesus

    (or John the son of Zebedee) and John the Elder

    (or John the Presbyter). The latter is a rather obscure figure in early Christianity and we really don’t know much about him.

    We can also say pretty conclusively that whoever this John was, he was not also the author the Gospel of John. The Gospel of John is written in rather simple, but elegant Greek by someone who was obviously a native speaker. The Book of Revelation, in contrast, is poorly written in Greek with numerous grammatical mistakes, most likely by someone who was not a native Greek speaker, although scholars do believe it was by someone who spoke one of the Semitic languages of the area. The Gospel of John and Revelation also disagree on several theological points, which some early church fathers argued was a reason to exclude it from the cannon.

    Of course, most scholars do not think the Gospel of John was written by the disciple of Jesus, and since we know his native language was Aramaic and not Greek, and he was almost certainly illiterate, but perhaps he learned to speak and write Greek and that’s why Revelation is so poorly written?

    Perhaps. But aside from the pragmatic unlikeliness of this happening (there weren’t a lot of schools in those days where a peasant from Galilee could go to learn to write Greek), there is some evidence in the book itself which suggests this is not the case.

    Right in the beginning of the book, in Chapter 4, the author is taken up to heaven where he sees the throne of God. Around the throne of God are twenty-four lesser thrones, upon wihich sit twenty-four elders who forever worship God, and most scholars believe these represent the twelve patriarchs of Israel and the twelve disciples.

    But if this interpretation is correct, the person “seeing” the twenty-four elders could not be one of them, which John the Apostle obviously was.

    So, aside from the fact that the Apostle John almost certainly could not write in his native Aramaic, let alone Greek, there is evidence in the book itself that suggests the author of Revelation, at least, did not view himself as the Apostle John.

    Then was the author the enigmatic John the Elder? Perhaps. But John was a very common name in the ancient Jewish world — in the top five most common names of the period — so most likely it was a completely different John altogether, but through this coincidence the early Church believed the book was written by one of the famous “Johns” and therefore was made a part of the cannon.

    The author of Revelation almost certainly wasn’t John the Apostle or the same writer as the Gospel of John. All we really can say about him was that his name was John and he lived on the island of Patmos."

    Who wrote the Book of Revelation in the Bible? - Quora
     
  4. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,936
    Ratings:
    +6,687
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    I definitely do not agree with this

    God is far beyond any Scripture
     
  5. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,936
    Ratings:
    +6,687
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    There is no reason "to think there is no more work to do as well"

    Why you claim to know "about Jesus and God their Plans or lack thereof"?

    I admit I have no clue about either, both ways
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    22,476
    Ratings:
    +6,360
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I never said that God was limited to any Scripture, let alone the Bible. That is a Christian belief
    I was only referring to what is in the Bible and Jesus.

    Jesus' life and the part of God's Plan that is related to Jesus is in the Bible.
    But that is by no means all of God's Plan, not according to Baha'i beliefs.
    Baha'is believe that God's Plan is continually unfolding and more will be revealed in every new age.
    The Baha'i Faith is only the latest chapter in the continually unfolding religion of God which is renewed in every age.
    Some things change when religion is renewed but the eternal spiritual verities never change.

    “This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.” Gleanings, p. 136
     
  7. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    22,476
    Ratings:
    +6,360
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I just go by what is in the Bible as there is no other way to know what Jesus said.
    There is no reason to believe there was any more work for Jesus to do because Jesus never said He had more work to do.
     
  8. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,936
    Ratings:
    +6,687
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    Untrue

    Again, why state this as a claim?

    It's obviously your opinion only; at least you should admit that, right?

    That is no argument that makes sense to me, as if you believe that Masters dictate everything, and only in the Bible, and that for Eternity even
     
  9. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    22,476
    Ratings:
    +6,360
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    It is my belief, not my opinion.
    I don't want to argue once I have stated my belief.
    You have a completely different belief system.
    I believe what I believe and you believe what you believe.
    What's the point in arguing? I have no need to prove anything.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  10. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,936
    Ratings:
    +6,687
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    That was not the point
    Don't state it as a fact was the point
    Thereby imposing it on me and others
     
    #90 stvdv, Apr 6, 2021 at 11:53 PM
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 12:01 AM
  11. Tiberius

    Tiberius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    Messages:
    3,384
    Ratings:
    +747
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Don't know if it's Biblical, but I can tell you it's not going to happen.
     
  12. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2017
    Messages:
    22,476
    Ratings:
    +6,360
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    I was not stating it as a fact, but apparently that is how it sounded to you, so I fixed it:

    I just go by what is in the Bible since I believe that there is no other way to know what Jesus said.
    There is no reason for me to believe there was any more work for Jesus to do because Jesus never said He had more work to do in the Bible.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2018
    Messages:
    11,936
    Ratings:
    +6,687
    Religion:
    Sanathana Dharma [The Eternal Religion]
    You did not use the words 'I state as a fact' but your words implied it

    :)
    I could not have phrased it myself any better. :cool:
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  14. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus James 4:14

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,628
    Ratings:
    +1,446
    Religion:
    The Creator

    Thank you for sharing your view on Revelation. Nothing new though and I agree with much of it, actually.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    10,278
    Ratings:
    +5,109
    Religion:
    Gnostic Atheism
    Unless they want to win a Darwin Award.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
  16. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2017
    Messages:
    3,715
    Ratings:
    +2,532
    Religion:
    None
    Have you checked out the Adventists and Jehovah's Witness predictions. The Bible Students and JW's made that mistake multiple times with a whole lot of different end times dates, 1914, 1925, 1935 and 1975. The Millerites had the Great Disappointment in 1844. Check their reasoning out and see if you are following the same pattern of reasoning, because all those predictions were obviously wrong.
     
    #96 Israel Khan, Apr 7, 2021 at 6:33 AM
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 6:39 AM
  17. Clara Tea

    Clara Tea Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2020
    Messages:
    684
    Ratings:
    +222
    Revelation says that the Beast attacked Iraq, as did his father, the Dragon. Both Bush presidents started their terms in the Chinese year of the Dragon. Chinese lore says that the Dragon will destroy the world. Mayan lore says that there will be a great dragon destroy the world (about now). Aztec's dragon God was said to destroy the world (about now).

    God sent prophets to our modern world who warned that we must not attack Iraq (but everyone ignored God's prophets, and defied God, and attacked Iraq).
     
  18. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2016
    Messages:
    11,916
    Ratings:
    +2,283
    Religion:
    Light Impressed with Love
    no, you're going to have a coming to jesus moment possibly at some point.

    john 12:32

    now, are you going to dance, or just sit there?


     
  19. Vee

    Vee Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2017
    Messages:
    1,360
    Ratings:
    +2,454
    Religion:
    Jehovah's Witness
    If they had read the bible, they would have seen Mark 13:32 where it clearly says that nobody knows the day or the hour. Actually, the entire chapter is very enlightening.
     
  20. Teritos

    Teritos Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2021
    Messages:
    260
    Ratings:
    +73
    Religion:
    Christian
    Should you always take the Bible literally? In one passage in the New Testament, it says that Jesus has a name that nobody knows except Himself(Revelation 19:12); does that mean that the Father does not know the name?

    Did Jesus really not know when the hour is? One possible explanation,
    One of the little-known aspects of Jewish culture was the wedding ceremony. When a bride and groom were to be married, a celebration would ensue. It took time to prepare the meals, the water, the wine, as well as for people to make travel plans to attend the wedding. Of course, in order to prepare for such a celebration, people had to know what day the wedding would occur. The custom of the groom was to prepare a room-addition to the father’s house. This is where the new bride and groom would reside after the wedding. it was the custom that the father would then “officially” declares the room addition ready and give the son permission to go get his bride. Of course, the trumpeters were waiting for the official command by the father of the household for the son to go get the bride. It was customary to say that no one knew the day nor the hour when the father would send the son to get the bride. It was a sign of respect for the father. It was a cultural thing. So, when Jesus said that no one knows the day nor the hour, he was reflecting the cultural norm. It did not mean he did not actually know the day nor the hour. If Jesus is God, then why did He not know the time of His return? (carm.org)
     
Loading...