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Is Jesus Christ true man AND true God?

peacecrusader888

Active Member
This came from Christianity in General closed today 2016-12-03 by Brickjectivity. He suggested to put it in Same Faith Debates or Religious Debates. Here is my answer to Neo Deist:

Many people are confused about the deity of Jesus Christ even though they are in Christianity DIR. Revelation 19:10 states: "for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." And God's coming had been prophesied about 700 years before in Isaiah 7:14 and 9:6.
 
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Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
This came from Christianity in General closed today 2016-12-03 by Bricktivity. He suggested to put it in Same Faith Debate or Religious Debate' Here is my answer to Neo:

Many people are confused about the deity of Jesus Christ even though they are in Christianity DIR. Revelation 19:10 states: "for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." And God's coming had been prophesied about 700 years before in Isaiah 7:14 and 9:6.

< Doctorate in Theology ;)
 

Stalwart

Member
He is certainly man -- he prayed, he suffered, he was tempted. We also know for certain that He is God in a complete sense; He is true God and true man.

(John 1:1-14):
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made.
4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him.
8 He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light.
9 That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name.
13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

(John 10:30):
30 I and the Father are one.

(John 8:58):
58 Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am.

(Revelation 21:6):
6 And he said to me: It is done. I am Alpha and Omega; the beginning and the end. To him that thirsteth, I will give of the fountain of the water of life, freely.

(Revelation 22:6-16):
6 And he said to me: These words are most faithful and true. And the Lord God of the spirits of the prophets sent his angel to shew his servants the things which must be done shortly.
7 And, Behold I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.
8 And I, John, who have heard and seen these things. And after I had heard and seen, I fell down to adore before the feet of the angel, who shewed me these things.
9 And he said to me: See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them that keep the words of the prophecy of this book. Adore God.
10 And he saith to me: Seal not the words of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
11 He that hurteth, let him hurt still: and he that is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is just, let him be justified still: and he that is holy, let him be sanctified still.
12 Behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to render to every man according to his works.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.
14 Blessed are they that wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb: that they may have a right to the tree of life, and may enter in by the gates into the city.
15 Without are dogs, and sorcerers, and unchaste, and murderers, and servers of idols, and every one that loveth and maketh a lie.
16 I Jesus have sent my angel, to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the root and stock of David, the bright and morning star.
 

peacecrusader888

Active Member
Stalwart, you and I have the same belief that Jesus Christ is true man AND true God. I based my belief on His prophecies. You, on the scripture you cited.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
< Doctorate in Theology ;)

Which means what?
297.gif
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
So the difference between someone with a degree in Theology and someone who doesn't, but has studied the Bible extensively, is.......?
89.gif

The person that studied it independently is most likely looking at it from a biased perspective.
 

GodsVoice

Active Member
This came from Christianity in General closed today 2016-12-03 by Brickjectivity. He suggested to put it in Same Faith Debates or Religious Debates. Here is my answer to Neo Deist:

Many people are confused about the deity of Jesus Christ even though they are in Christianity DIR. Revelation 19:10 states: "for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." And God's coming had been prophesied about 700 years before in Isaiah 7:14 and 9:6.

The name "Jesus Christ" represents everything in God excluding the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" which will be cast out and burned up soon. "Jesus" represents the VISIBLE earthly things and "Christ" represents all that is INVISIBLE such as the MIND ( God ) and His Voice including the technology used to create the simulation program we're involved in and all the stored information that came from the "thoughts" of our Creator.

Psalm 92
5: How great are thy works, O LORD! Thy thoughts are very deep!
6: The dull man cannot know, the stupid cannot understand this:

Psalm 139
17: How precious to me are thy thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The person that studied it independently is most likely looking at it from a biased perspective.

Hmmmmm.....I believe that the Pharisees thought that of Jesus. :) So who were the biased ones?
Heretics accusing the God's son of heresy. The Church did the same thing...accusing the ones who dared to speak the truth as criminals. Who were the real criminals?

A degree in theology is a degree in Churchianity.....not Christianity. I can't remember Jesus or his apostles ever flashing their credentials....do you? Probably because they avoided those schools of higher learning like the plague. No truth was to be found there. :(
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
For many reasons I believe Jesus has two natures: fully God and fully man
In part an illustration is Psalms 111 and Psalms 112 which are two short acrostic Psalms about the blessed God and the blessed man where Jesus is both Two natures bolted together and also represents how the church in Christ can have communion with God.


Jesus is not the Father and Jesus prayed to the father but spoke of the love they had ever before the world was made In the Trinity love, communication, community, majesty and glory were always part of God's nature, without the Trinity love must wait until God creates something (majesty and power are first hand to God and) Jesus reflects the Father and claimed without sin that 'He who has seen Me has seen the Father'

God said many times in Ezekiel that there were bad shepherds and God alone would shepherd his people (about 25 times) and then said 'I will set David over my people who will shepherd them' In someway Jesus is the God Man, the greater than David who will be the good shepherd king over His people.
 
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Oeste

Well-Known Member
Heretics accusing the God's son of heresy. The Church did the same thing...accusing the ones who dared to speak the truth as criminals. Who were the real criminals?

I guess it would be the "heretics" who fell into "apostasy".

Look, from the viewpoint of the Watchtower Jesus Christ descended, invisibly, and chose the Watchtower organization in 1919 because of its teachings, one of which was the worship of Jesus Christ. In fact, the worship of Christ was even in your charter.

Now you don't worship him anymore, even though Christ chose your organization while your organization was worshipping him. So, from your own standpoint, you are now in criminal apostasy because your present day "Governing Board" has deviated from "the truth". You no longer go door to door preaching the same truth during Christ's worldwide "inspection" but started a new, totally fresh, deviated "truth" as soon as he left.

Add this to your claim the current Governing Board is no longer inspired (i.e., no channeling) and I see nothing but an Organization lacquered in the deep enthralls of the same heresies it attributes to Christendom.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
A human person is made up of two parts. A physical body and a spirit. Jesus had the physical body of a human but He did not have a human spirit. He had God's holy spirit. Therefore Jesus was indeed fully human ( in body ( and fully God ( in spirit ). Like all humans, his physical body died and turned to dust But his spirit returned to be with the Father in Heaven. The good news is that a human can receive God's spirit and also return to God.
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
'Jesus Christ' (Yeshua) IS true God and true man....and so are we and the entire Universe. Yeshua told us that 'the kingdom of God is within us', making us divine. And since we divine beings are totally integrated into the Universe at large, it, too, is divine....and....surprise.....CONSCIOUS!

'The Universe is The Absolute, as seen through the glass of Time, Space, and Causation'

Vivekenanda
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I guess it would be the "heretics" who fell into "apostasy".

Yes. Just as Jesus foretold, "weeds" of false Christianity were sown whilst the "wheat" were sill in their early stages of growth. It was hard to tell the difference in those early centuries, (which is why Jesus said to let them grow together because only at the harvest time would the distinction be clear....then, they would not resemble one another at all) but as time went on it was easy to see who had no evidence of God's backing. "The Church" became unrecognisable as a Christian body, adopting all manner of false religious beliefs and festivals....still accepted to this day. Any wonder Jesus tells these ones "I never knew you! Get away from me you workers of lawlessness!" (Matthew 7:21-23)

Look, from the viewpoint of the Watchtower Jesus Christ descended, invisibly, and chose the Watchtower organization in 1919 because of its teachings, one of which was the worship of Jesus Christ. In fact, the worship of Christ was even in your charter.

There was quite a bit of doctrine to sift through and it was done in a thorough manner. In time we came to appreciate that the word "worship" had a broader meaning. In Matthew, where the magi came to give gifts to the young child, Jesus, it says that they "worshipped" him in most Bibles. But these pagan astrologers from Babylon did not think that Jesus was a god, they came to pay their respects to a future "King of the Jews", not to worship him as a deity. We too respect Jesus as King, but like he said to satan 'it is Jehovah alone that we must worship' (Luke 4:8.) Obeisance and worship are the same word in Greek.

Now you don't worship him anymore, even though Christ chose your organization while your organization was worshipping him. So, from your own standpoint, you are now in criminal apostasy because your present day "Governing Board" has deviated from "the truth". You no longer go door to door preaching the same truth during Christ's worldwide "inspection" but started a new, totally fresh, deviated "truth" as soon as he left.

Oh please....take your trolling somewhere else. We never worshipped Jesus as God in the first place. We honoured him as the son of God and always have.

Add this to your claim the current Governing Board is no longer inspired (i.e., no channeling) and I see nothing but an Organization lacquered in the deep enthralls of the same heresies it attributes to Christendom.

You see what you want to see.
I understand your prejudice and I also understand your need to prop up the teachings of Christendom, but the heretics are again accusing the true servants of the Master of heresy. Point me to any evidence that Christendom is "Christian" in its teachings or in its conduct. Promoting the view that Jesus is equally God is a breaking of the first commandment. (Exodus 20:3) The God and Father of Jesus Christ has no equal.

Please provide evidence that Christendom adheres to the teachings of Jesus Christ.
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
If you are a human man and you have a son isn't that son a human like you? So if the Father in Heaven had a son wouldn't that son be just as much a "god" as his father. You really just have to use a little logic here. People are so brain washed with ideas that they ignore the obvious. Any son of a man is a man and any son of a "god" is a "god".
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
If you are a human man and you have a son isn't that son a human like you? So if the Father in Heaven had a son wouldn't that son be just as much a "god" as his father. You really just have to use a little logic here. People are so brain washed with ideas that they ignore the obvious. Any son of a man is a man and any son of a "god" is a "god".

The thing is, Jesus was not a human in his previous existence, therefore he was a spirit being like all other beings who inhabit the spirit realm. In order to pay the ransom (a debt incurred by our forefather Adam) Jesus volunteered to become human so that he could offer his life in exchange for the one Adam forfeited.....resulting in a legacy of sin and death for all his children. Jesus redeemed us by dying instead of us, guaranteeing that our lives will not be forever lost, even if we die.

Jesus had to be 100% human to offer that sacrifice but he could not have been God because immortal beings cannot die. Jesus really died and was laid in a tomb for three days.....then true to his word, God resurrected him from the dead on the third day.

The son of God was raised as a spirit in order to return to his Father in the same capacity as he was before....at his Father's right hand. (1 Peter 3:18; Psalm 110:1)
 

lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
The flesh and blood body dies but the spirit did not die. Jesus was a human body ( which died ) and the spirit of God ( which did not die ). So Jesus was indeed human and God. The human part died and the God part did not die.How could Jesus be the son of God and not be God? Can the son of a human not be human?
 
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