Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
the granddaughter made it
The grandmother made the creation of it possible.
Its exactly the same with Jesus and Jehovah. Jesus made it, Jehovah made it possible.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Is Jesus Adam?
- Thread starter Big_TJ
- Start date
the granddaughter made it
The grandmother made the creation of it possible.
Its exactly the same with Jesus and Jehovah. Jesus made it, Jehovah made it possible.
At last we seem to be agreeing.. So we would expect Grandma to say "granddaughter made the cake under my supervision. This is not what we find in the scriptures. Jehovah stated that " I made man (Adam), I blew in man's nostrils, and I put man in Eden", not that "man was made under my supervision or though Jesus (or any other character)."
Accept it Pegg, the belief that it is Jesus made Adam is simply not biblical. You (and perhaps most JWs) simply assign this ascertion so that the NWT "harmonize" with other scriptures and with a pre-determined belief. Its that same thing that they do with Colossian 1:16 - they inserted "other" in the NWT so that things harmonize.
Couple this with the fact that there is nothing in the greek "monogenes" that suggest "begotten" would distroy the premise that only Jesus was made by Jehovah, then it then begs the question as to whether Adam and Jesus is the same (Jesus is the reincarnated Jesus, perhaps?). Perhaps this is another example of re-incarnation suggestion in the bible.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Its not the same as creating something. There are many truths disguised in Gods written word that men cannot understand without the help of the HS. That is why Jesus appointed the faithful and discreet slave( lead teachers) over all of his belongings to give spiritual food at the proper time--Only by learning from the fds one can learn truths.
Please explain the difference.
Ok, so it's not the bible that tell you that Jesus created Adam; it was the "discrete slaves"?
Well, again, that's fine, but it is clear that there is a difference between the teaching of the "discrete slaves" and the bible. Wonder which is correct?
Big TJ, who is the let 'us' of Gen 1 v 26 ?_______ God was not talking to himself.
No one is saying God is not 'singular' Creator. Rev. 4 v 11.
When a father takes a son into his business it becomes a Father&Son business.
God as the Father was in the business of creating.
God used his first created Son in the rest of the creation business.
No one is saying God is not 'singular' Creator. Rev. 4 v 11.
When a father takes a son into his business it becomes a Father&Son business.
God as the Father was in the business of creating.
God used his first created Son in the rest of the creation business.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
lol, is there anything in the scripture that says Adam will be reincarnated as Gods Messiah?
Genesis only tells us that Adam will die and return to dust. It doesnt say he will return as the messiah...and why would God use a rebellious man to be the savior of mankind anyway?
All good questions.
BUT, why the inconsistency? You accept that "Jesus created Adam" even though the bible DID NOT say so, but would not accept "Jesus is the reincarnated Adam" on the basis that the bible did not say so??
And, even if the scripture said that, would you accept it? I only asked because the scripture clearly stated that Jehovah created Adam and you apparently do not accept it.
URAVIP2ME, I answered this several times. The "us" could be 1)Jesus, 2) other angels, 3) "his" wife, etc. The point is no one knows. But this have absolutely nothing to do with the actual creation of man. Jehovah stated categorically that it was "HE" who created man - even if the orginal idea was generated by Jehovah and whoever the "us" is. I can't believe this is so difficult to accept and understand - it is clearly shown in your own translation of the bible. So, as I asked (and you hadn't respond as yet:
1) do you believe that Jehovah blew in Man's nostrils through Jesus?
2) do you think Jehovah placed man in Eden through Jesus?
3) Do you only believe Jehovah created man because the "faithful servant" tells you so?
I challenge you to produce one scripture in any version of the bible that suggest that Jehovah created man through Jesus.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
but you are missing a few crucial scriptures that imply that Jesus was the one God used to create all things.
Johns word in John 1:3
Pauls words in Colossians that all things came into existence through Jesus
Genesis account where God is clearly speaking to someone else when he said "let US make man in OUR image"
The prophetic words of Prov 8 regarding a 'master worker' who was with God before the founding of the earth.
all these play a part in helping us understand Jesus role more clearly. I agree with you that no scripture says 'Jesus created Adam'.... but with so many verses pointing to Jesus role, it becomes difficult to ignore them.
Also you need to consider that christian understanding would be guided by holy spirit...as Jesus said in John 16:12 I have many things yet to say to YOU, but YOU are not able to bear them at present. 13 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth
of course i accept that Jehovah is our creator.... that is why we worship him and not Jesus.
But how Jehovah created mankind is not a problem for me. I dont mind that Jesus was used as the master worker, or that Jesus did the work. I still view Jehovah as my creator because he is the one who made it possible.
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Jehovah created Adam, but he used Jesus as a vessel to do it through--same with Moses-- Jehovah parted the red sea but used Moses as a vessel to do it through. Without Jehovahs power neither could have done what was done.
Actually I am not missing them - they fit perfectly! As I said (and you have not given an adequate rebuttal), "all things" doesnt mean "all things." At the very least it exclude 1) Jesus since it may sound rediculus that Jesus created himself, and 2) humans - since Jehovah specifically told you that it was him, Jehovah, who created Adam. I tend to side with the NWT's translation which include the word "other" in Colossian, even though there is not a scriptural reason for such insertion. It is just very clear that it was the "other things" that Jesus created (or Jehovah created through Jesus).
RFLMAO!!!
Are you saying that you dont understand this, but you will understand when "the one arrives?"
And that's the real power of belief - I love it!! No need to separate facts from fiction - Just believe and you will be saved!
Ok, fine. So how did Jehovah:
1) blew in the man's nostrils?
2) put Adam in Eden?
Did he do those through Jesus too? I am really curious of your answer.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
I have a multiple choice for you.
Q. Who is your creator?
A. Jehovah God
B. Jesus Christ
C.Your mother and father
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
Biblically, Jehovah. In the real world, mama and papa
Ok, so if you accept that Jehovah created you through your mother and father, then why is it so difficult to believe that Jehovah created Adam through his firstborn son Jesus?
I hope you will see that this is how the words of Paul and John can be applied to Jesus as the one through whom all things came into existence...including the life of men.
I NEVER said that, nor do I accept that. What I said is that biblically, Jehovah but in the real world, it's mama and papa. I did not say that Jehovah created me through mama and papa. My existence is a product of a biological process that involved mama and papa - I am not aware of any supernatural involvement, since there is no evidence of this. Again, Adam was not created through any vessel; this is your interpretation to make the scriptures "harmonize."
kjw47
Well-Known Member
Jehovah may have done those two things through Jesus( Gods word doesnt give a step by step occurence of all events), but Jehovah did it, so he deserves the honor for the most part. Yet Jesus had honor with Jehovah before he came to the earth as well.
Ok. So, just so that I understand, are you saying that you don't know if Jehovah blew in the nostrils or put Adam in Eden through Jesus because the bible did not give a step by step occurence of that event? If that is the case, would it not be the same with Adam since the bible did not give a step by step occurence of how he made Adam? Since Jehovah never said how he made Adam, wouldnt that also mean that we don't know how it was done?
I don't know. All I know is that mama and papa did their thing and I am the output. Now, if you know, please tell me. Also, please provide a scientific source for your information so that I can check it myself.
You asked me this about 3 times and I responded all the times - why do you keep asking? I said that I dont know. It could be Jesus, it could be Jehovah's wife, it could be other angels, it could be himself. The bible does not say, and any answer you supplied to this is likely to be a speculative answer with little or no biblical evidence. But, for my information, could you kindly tell me to whom was he speaking, and provide reference (biblical or otherwise)?