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Featured Is it true?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by paarsurrey, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Well-Known Member
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    It was the OP that brought up the point about falability and thus I addressed this specific point.

    As to what metaphors and truths are contained in the passage posted, time will unfold some and some we may never find.

    Personally I like the Spiritual Metephor, but Bahau'llah has also said that for the seventy hidden meanings, there is one outward material reality. Thus I do not discount that science will find something in the future, in fact personally I am sure they will.

    If that is wrong, God loves laughter.

    Regards Tony
     
  2. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

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    You are going down a path that will only bring more heartache

    1. That a human - no matter who he said he was - is infallible - is largely incorrect -
    2. Taking established science and making statements such as "it is new" etc only diminishes your credibility and marks you as someone that would prefer to support faith even when presented evidence to the contrary - what difference between yourself and others that insist non believers will be struck down on the day of Resurrection?
     
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  3. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Well-Known Member
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    I just see it says I do not know much, I am happy to wear that badge.

    Faith is the robe we cling to,

    "....Thou seest me, O my God, holding to Thy Name, the Most Holy, the Most Luminous, the Most Mighty, the Most Great, the Most Exalted, the Most Glorious, and clinging to the hem of the robe to which have clung all in this world and in the world to come....."

    Regards Tony
     
  4. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    Modern physics and chemistry.
     
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  5. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    I think it’s clear that copper is the ungodliness in the world today and what Baha’u’llah is saying is that the Elixir Of His Word can transmute it into a Golden society of peace and unity. We believe all the Divine Teachers are infallible.

    “The corrosion of ungodliness is eating into the vitals of human society; what else but the Elixir of His potent Revelation can cleanse and revive it? Is it within human power, ( Baha’u’llah - Gleanings)

    “These few have been endued with the Divine Elixir that can, alone, transmute into purest gold the dross of the world, and have been empowered to administer the infallible remedy for all the ills that afflict the children of men” (Gleanings)

    “God guides men through a Mouthpiece, a human being, a Prophet, infallible and unerring” (Shoghi Effendi)
     
    #105 loverofhumanity, Mar 15, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  6. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

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    Quite a dystopian view of the world -


    Says the grandson of the person in question - bias much?
     
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  7. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

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    This discussion is getting reminiscent of the thread Infallibility by @Vinayaka. I am seeing discussions turn the same way and the people who posted their positions then - posting the same entrenched views at this time -
     
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  8. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    I think we all want what’s best for our world and planet. The Elixir mentioned is referring primarily to the unity of mankind through the elimination of prejudices of all kinds and the acceptance that we are one human family all equal to one another.
     
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  9. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

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    Yeah -- you say that but then at least my interpretation is that you (or the teachings you subscribe to) see the world as a dark, dismal, tortured and sick place and only your prophet is the Hakim with the requisite medication - kinda contradicts the "we are all one human family" statement - provide me with one statement from the Kitab-1-Aqdas where contemporary non-Baha'i writings or teachings were incorporated unaltered -
     
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  10. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    It is abstractly metaphorically, alchemically true.
     
  11. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    I think that is relative if one lives in comfort shielded from all the suffering out there then they might take that view.

    Today there was an attack on two Mosques in NZ while people were praying resulting in more than 40 dead and you say we don’t have problems? Baha’u’llah is spot on.

    And what do you think caused that? Anti-Muslim sentiment spread by sites like Jihad Watch and Religion of Peace who demonize people and then some crazies start to murder. The same thing that Mullas do in Mosques incite people against each other. We need to join together to promote the oneness of all people not demonize and create more hostility and prejudice.

    So Baha’u’llah’s solution is for us all to see each other as equals and that involves not demonizing any race, religion, nationality or people as these prejudices cause some to get out their guns and kill and can trigger wars.
     
  12. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    It seems to be talking about an event inside people using a symbolic description. Is it true? I believe it is in the sense that everyone who experienced God will think that a transformation has happened inside of themselves.

    If taken literally. Whether copper changes to gold over 70 years after excavation... it does not. Scientists can transmute other elements to gold. I believe the first to do this was Seaborg.
     
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  13. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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  14. Niblo

    Niblo Active Member

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    Hi.

    I have it on excellent authority....my gran....that if you leave a Lancashire hotpot untouched for eighteen months it will transmute into Welsh cawl :)
     
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  15. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    It needs to be buried 47.5 inches under ground with a lining of river mud and dog muck to attain the full flavour
     
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  16. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Lead and gold are very close in atomic weight and number. Particle accelerators will bombard a substance with particles at close to light speeds. Some few of those particles will be absorbed by (or particles will be stripped from) the target substance thus changing its atomic weight.

    Note copper is not close in atomic weight to gold. In fact it is less than 1/3 the weight.
     
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  17. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    To understand as to what is "Elixir" in the extended quote from Bahaullah, I give its etymology, please:

    elixir (n.)
    mid-13c., from Medieval Latin elixir "philosopher's stone," believed by alchemists to transmute baser metals into gold and/or to cure diseases and prolong life, from Arabic al-iksir "the philosopher's stone," probably from late Greek xerion "powder for drying wounds," from xeros "dry" (see xerasia). Later in medical use for "a tincture with more than one base." General sense of "strong tonic" is 1590s; used for quack medicines from at least 1630s.

    elixir | Origin and meaning of elixir by Online Etymology Dictionary

    Regards
     
  18. Niblo

    Niblo Active Member

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    Ahhh....I see you've met my gran! :)
     
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  19. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

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    As usual - twisting the words of the other to make one's own point

    I never said "We do not have problems"

    Re read again or make an appointment with your local optometrist or get a bigger computer screen if you cannot see

    I decried your world view as dismal -

    That is a far cry from "We do not have problems" -

    While we do have instances of hate - we have always had them - humanity always rises above - the vast majority of people strive to bette themselves and take care of their fellow beings who are suffering - we have come a long way from the so-called dark ages with advances in medicine to allay suffering, communications (case in point) and our general understanding of the Universe that surrounds us - consider the recent confirmation of light bending predicted by Einstein - added to that is facts about groups of humans caring about species going extinct to try and salvage some of them - including plants - that to me promises a better more enlightened tomorrow

    And you side stepped my question entirely -

    I am not usually given to using harsh language - but here I shall say it - put up or shut up
     
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  20. Looncall

    Looncall Well-Known Member

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    Alchemically? Really? (Uproarious sardonic laughter) Alchemy was debunked long, long ago. It was never anything but fraud and pathetic superstition.

    If Bahai's are into alchemy, their system is discredited.
     
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