1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Is it true?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by paarsurrey, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    26,361
    Ratings:
    +10,852
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    Sterling silver is a copper/silver alloy. The number of alloys is infinite.
     
  2. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,835
    Ratings:
    +1,434
    Because many of them blindly follow Bahaullah.

    Regards
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,835
    Ratings:
    +1,434
    paarsurrey said:
    I agree to what I have colored in magenta, please.
    Do other Bahai people also believe Bahaullah to be a fallible man, please?

    What about friend @InvestigateTruth, please?

    Regards
     
  4. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6,211
    Ratings:
    +1,643
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The references to copper and gold were symbolic:

    For instance, consider the substance copper: which if it is protected in its own mine from super-abundance of dryness, will in seventy years[1] attain to the state of gold -- although some consider copper itself to be gold, which through super-abundance of dryness, hath become disordered and hath not reached its own state.


    [1 Seventy years is equivalent to "three score years and ten," the life of man. This reference to copper and gold is symbolic, copper being human reason, while gold is spiritual illumination.]

    To be brief: a perfect elixir, however, will cause the substance copper to attain the state of gold in an instant, and to traverse the seventy-year stages in a moment. Could it be said that this gold is copper or that it hath not attained the condition of gold, while the test is at hand to differentiate and distinguish the qualities of gold from those of copper?

    (Compilations, Baha'i Scriptures, p. 43)

    Also read:

    "The trees of hope will become verdant; the copper of scorn and derision will be transmuted into the gold of honor and praise; the arid desert of ignorance will be transformed into the luxuriant garden of knowledge; the threatening clouds shall be dispelled and the stars of faith and charity will again twinkle in the clear heaven of consciousness."

    (Compilations, Baha'i Scriptures, p. 548)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,835
    Ratings:
    +1,434
    Are there other classification of the Bahaism people, like Radical-Bahai or Conservative-Bahai, Orthodox-Bahai etc other than the Liberal-Bahai to which one has identified, please?

    Regards
     
  6. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,835
    Ratings:
    +1,434
    But Bahaullah was talking about the past not about the future, else, the argument in the passage becomes absolutely meaningless, please.

    Regards
     
  7. InvestigateTruth

    InvestigateTruth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    Messages:
    5,407
    Ratings:
    +1,215
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    The Bahai view is, Bahaullah is Manifestation of God. That means everything Bahaullah ever said or wrote, are the Words of God. Can we say, God is fallible?
    Moreover, consider for example, Holy Books say, Jesus did not have a human father, whereas the current science thinks, human always need a father and mother. Can you say Holy Books are false? Perhaps God knows how to convert copper to gold in 70 years. How do we know, God does not know this? Bahaullah is not saying ordinary humans know how copper can be changed to gold in 70 years. He says, it's knowledge is with Him.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,835
    Ratings:
    +1,434
    Sure , I believe,Bahaullah understood it wrongly.
    In that case Bahaullah did not need to mention about physical metal copper converting to physical metal gold. Bahaullah was not talking about any "might be" future advancement of metallurgical science in the argument. Right, please?

    Regards
     
  9. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,835
    Ratings:
    +1,434
    How is one so sure that "That we do not yet understand is the point", please?

    Regards
     
  10. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,835
    Ratings:
    +1,434
    We are presently focused on the passage written by Bahaullah given in the OP and its context given in post #18 , please.

    Regards
     
  11. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,835
    Ratings:
    +1,434
    Well, Bahaullah was not talking about any alloys in the passage and in the context passages, please read them. Right, please?

    Regards
     
  12. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    9,634
    Ratings:
    +8,881
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    Your link showed some transformations into gold, but not of copper into gold.
     
  13. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    8,786
    Ratings:
    +3,728
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    First not all the writings are literal. As described in the more complete citation it has other meanings than literal.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    14,835
    Ratings:
    +1,434
    That may be an incorrect belief of the Bahaism people but Baha'ullah did not himself in Kitab-i-Iqan or Book of Certitude expressly and unequivocally claim that "everything he (Bahaullah) ever said or wrote, are the Words of God." Right, please?

    If yes, then please quote from Kitab-i-Iqan or Book of Certitude, please.

    Regards
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  15. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    1,460
    Ratings:
    +805
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Lol, "radical Baha'i" is something I've never heard of. But there are fundamentalist Baha'i in the same way there are fundamentalist Ahmadi such as yourself. To be liberal or to be a fundamentalist just depends on your ability to disagree with your founder when they got it wrong, are you able to disagree with the Quran where Muhammad got it wrong? Or are you able to disagree with Mirza Ghulam Ahmad where he got his writings wrong? If not then you are a fundamentalist
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2019
    Messages:
    494
    Ratings:
    +251
    Religion:
    Sikh
    Actually God as I understand it - does not work in that way

    God does not do things against nature - such as immortality or transmuting metals - these are just made up stories as far as I am concerned
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2019
    Messages:
    494
    Ratings:
    +251
    Religion:
    Sikh
    That sounds somewhat confusing to a simple minded person like me - life is hard enough to understand without a very learned person speaking in riddles that have more than one meaning .....
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. ManSinha

    ManSinha Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2019
    Messages:
    494
    Ratings:
    +251
    Religion:
    Sikh
    That is your faith speaking @Tony Bristow-Stagg - not supported by the gist of this thread
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    6,839
    Ratings:
    +4,828
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Which is exactly my point. Often sacred writings are mystical in nature. A parable or allegorical story needs to be interpreted with caution. Problems arise when Faith adherents take sacred writings literally that are really intended to convey spiritual meanings. The verse in question if read in context has little to do with the transmutation of the elements but instead the qualities of the soul attuned to God.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg A World Citizen
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2017
    Messages:
    5,726
    Ratings:
    +2,335
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    To which Infalliable is applicable to the OP.

    I say, we have yet to understand a lot about what Baha'ullah said and I discount no possibility as to the quote you posted. To be swayed either way by current popular belief, would be very unwise in my opinion.

    Science has a lot to learn. Faith still has a lot of growing to do.

    The infallibility of Baha'u'llah is clear as the non day sun in the writings. This is hard for a lot of Baha'i, because it appears science is contradicting what Baha'u'llah has offered. The scientific mind is far from working in harmony and far from discovering much at all, really science has just been born.

    Regards Tony
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
Loading...