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Featured Is it too late to “seek the LORD” (Revelation 22:11)

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by 2ndpillar, Mar 18, 2018.

  1. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    You seem to think up is down and down is up. It is the Romans/Gentiles, who killed Jews, and Christ. The high priest simply backed the Romans in killing "Christ" to fulfill Scripture (John 11:49-51). Yeshua was basing his argument using "scripture", he was not undermining "scripture", he was undermining the Jewish viewpoint. As for Peter and Paul, they divided "Judah" from "Israel" (Zech 11:14-17), which is "scattered among the nations" (Ez 36:22-24).

    John 11:49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, “You know nothing at all, 50nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish.” 51 Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,
     
  2. Phantasman

    Phantasman Well-Known Member

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    You don't complete the thought:

    53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

    57 Now both the chief priests and the Pharisees
    had given a commandment, that, if any man knew where he were, he should shew it, that they might take him.

    These weren't Romans nor Gentiles. They were JEWS. Isaiah tried to warn them:
    John 12:
    39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
    40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
    41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
    42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
    43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

    The word "converted" meant from Jew to Christ(ian). It meant from Gentile to Christ(ian).

    Now see Pauls wisdom:
    For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

    Spirit. Capital S. Holy. Mother. We are sons of spirit (Father and mother) and no longer of the flesh father and mother.
    Galatians:
    But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

    John:
    4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

    5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Spirit. Capital S. The Jews never had it and rejected it when Christ gave it. Many Jews converted to Christianity. They were no longer Jews. Are you not seeing the word Jew:

    "a member of the people and cultural community whose traditional religion is Judaism and who trace their origins through the ancient Hebrew people of Israel to Abraham."

    There is no such thing as a Christian Jew. You are one or the other.
     
  3. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    As you, along with your "Christian" friends are not "healed", I would suppose that you haven't been "converted", and therefore are among the "wicked" who will "not understand" (Daniel 12:10). As for those who will be converted, and given a new spirit and a new heart, that would be the "house of Israel" (Ez 36:22-26), whereas " I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you", much like as was depicted in Jer 31:31-33 with respect to the "house of Judah" and the "house of Israel". Sorry, no mention of any "Christian".

    As for the Jews, like the Holy Roman Church, none could kill apart from the Roman, or Holy Roman Empire.
     
    #23 2ndpillar, Mar 19, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
  4. Chris Lovel

    Chris Lovel searcher

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    I am always astounded at people, Christians, who quote the Bible as if it a reliable source of information. Why do they believe something there is very little evidence for? Let us examine the word "Lord", historically a Lord is a few levels below a King. So really calling God "Lord" not being the boss, is a bit of an insult, but I am sure God does not mind. Then there is the term "righteous" that is highly subjective, during the Spanish inquisition Christians murdered and tortured people believing it was righteous. So who decides? The Bible has never been a reliable source of information, there are over 400 conflicting passages in it. They can't all be true, so what do you believe?. Then there is the problem of all the accounts of incidences and dialogues throughout the Bible. None of them were ever recorded in any way at the time. This means they are all passed by word of mouth and therefore "hear-say", not acceptable as evidence in any court of law and therefore not a reliable form of communications. I don't think that has occurred to many Christians as I have found no reference to it anywhere. I am very dubious about the validity of here-say in an old book. What do you think?
     
  5. Chris Lovel

    Chris Lovel searcher

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    Good point, Christians seem to believe God is everywhere and "seeking" someone suggests they are lost. I don't believe for a minute God is lost.
    I find it very difficult to understand why Christians put so much confidence in a book that has over 400 conflicting passages, one would find it difficult which passage to believe. Then there is the problem with the credibility of the Bible, I have noted that there are no accounts of incidences and dialogues when people present at the time recording them in any way. This means it was passed on by word of mouth or in legal terms "here-say" . This cannot be used as evidence in a court of law and therefore not a reliable form of communication. Yet people ignore this situation and content to live with myths, so sad. What do you think?
     
  6. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    People often believe what they want/need to believe regardless of the evidence. And especially when there is so little.
     
  7. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    It is near from God's eternal perspective...
    But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is patient toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:8-9
     
  8. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    No it's not too late yet.
     
  9. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    When is "yet"? Were Judah and Ephraim able to find the LORD, or did he "go away and return to My place" (Hosea 5:15)?

    New American Standard Bible Isaiah 55:6
    Seek the LORD while He may be found; Call upon Him while He is near.
     
    #29 2ndpillar, Mar 21, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2018
  10. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Those were whole nations or tribes. Individuals could have repented even then. There is a time when God rejects whole nations and even individuals but even though a nation is rejected that doesn't mean individuals cannot repent.
     
  11. DaniëlT

    DaniëlT New Member

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    The bible is a book of wonders, but like the bible has it's ending, so will all wonders have an ending.
     
  12. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Your problem is that 2 billion Catholics and Protestants probably "repented" theoretically, but what did they repent of. The 7 year old Catholic is having to make up sins to confess in the confessional. In my day, if he missed Easter service, he was condemned to hell unless he quickly got to the confessional. Is missing the feast day of Ishtar actually a sin? And since I have missed mass on Easter for the last 55 years, am I going to hell? If I confessed every year, would I have actually repented? I think you will have to be more specific as to what these individuals have actually repented of, and what Yeshua meant, and who he was speaking too.

    Repentance is turning from "wickedness" to "practice justice and righteousness". (Ez 18:27)
     
  13. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Let me guess you're going to argue that only the Torah can define sin? But, what about before the Torah? How come God destroyed the world with a flood if they had done no sin because there was no Torah?
     
  14. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Apparently Abraham had no problem keeping "My commandments" before they were written on stone by the finger of God. I am sure in the depths of your heart, you could, in your view, make up a better set of Commandments, but then again, so could Barrack Hussein Obama, but then, that path would lead to "destruction". Hey, if you don't like the commandments given to you by Yeshua in Mt 19:18, then by all means, follow the false prophets to destruction (Mt 7:13). I guess they call that free will.

    As for Noah, he was "a righteous man". And how is one determined as "righteous"? To find out, one must seek "His righteousness" (Mt 5:33). According to Malachi 3:13, the day is coming when one will "again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked". Apparently, as a follower of Paul, you rely on your own heart.(Jer 17:9)

    New American Standard Bible (Jeremiah 17:9)
    "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?


    New American Standard Bible Genesis 26:5
    because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."

    New American Standard Bible Genesis 6:9
    These are the records of the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his time; Noah walked with God.
     
  15. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Abraham married his sister which is forbidden in the Torah of Moses correct? Yeshua testified that man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. So then the Torah before Moses was every Word of God's mouth.

    In Matthew 19 Yeshua was indeed a minister of the Torah of Moses. (Romans 15:8) He had not yet died or rose from the dead. When He died He died to the whole world and all in it and even the Law of the world(The Torah of Moses).

    In the new Covenant there is the perfect Law of liberty which is not your heart. (John taught that God is greater than your heart.) The Law of the new Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-34) is the holy Spirit of God. As John the witness saw the holy city and the river of Life flowing from the throne. So then those who have Christ enthroned within; have the Law proceeding directly from the throne of God; (John 7:34) rather than from the seat of Moses. (Matthew 23:2) "for out of Zion shall go forth the law ..." (Isaiah 2:3) This is the River of Life which makes the desert into a garden of Eden so that you may bear fruit of the tree of Life.

    " Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert."

    "For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody."

    This is why Moses wished the Israelites had the holy Spirit just as he did. (Numbers 11:29) But, they were not ready for this (Ex. 20:19) and they needed the written Torah that they may learn that man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God does man live. But unfortunately they would not be able to keep the written Law. (Joshua 24:19) But when Yeshua came bringing grace and truth (John 1:17) then through His death, burial and resurrection the holy Spirit is poured out on all flesh as Joel prophesied. (Joel 2:28) So that the true worshipers can worship the Father in Spirit and in truth. (John 4:23) And this hour has come to us finally for those who receive the promise.
     
  16. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    As I implied before, your heart perverts what is actually said in the Word (Jeremiah 17:19), for you to be able to follow your false prophet Paul. Abraham didn't marry his sister. His wife was not related by blood to his mother. As for quoting from the false prophet Paul, that doesn't float. As for Joshua 24:19, "He will not forgive your transgressions or your sins". As for Numbers 11:29, all prophets of God are anointed, but then again, you are not a prophet. As for Jeremiah 31:31-34, that is with respect to the "house of Judah", and the "house of Israel", and has not happened until the "stick" of "Judah" and the "stick" of Israel" has be reunited and they take possession of the land "I gave to Jacob" (Ezekiel 37:15-28). Joel 2:28, is with respect to the "awesome day of the LORD", which is just getting revved up, with respect to Joel 3:1, and that "Jerusalem" and "Judah" have now been restored. As for John 4:23, nothing you have written is in "Spirit and in truth". As for Zion, the mountain of God, one does not worship on that mountain without "holding fast my covenant", and "keeps from profaning the Sabbath" (Isaiah 57:6). You have been duped by the beast with two horns like a lamb. (Revelation 13:14) Keep in mind, that those with the mark of the beast (Daniel 7:24-25) & Rev 13:11) will drink "the wine of the wrath of God" (Revelation 14:10). Apparently we are in the 70th year of Judah in Babylon, as the state of Israel was born in 1948, and remains under the foot of the nations, and "Jerusalem" was restored 50 years ago, which makes this the Jubilee of that event. This opportunity to fulfill Scripture only comes every 50 years. Judah only remained in Babylon for 70 years. Things are not looking good for anyone in your position. (Jeremiah 30:11)

    New American Standard Bible (Jeremiah 17:9)
    "The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
     
  17. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    James 4:11
    11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. 12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?
     
  18. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    Paul has "released you from the Law" (Romans 7:6), and is not a "doer of the law"(Romans 7:25), but has judged his fellow followers, and turned them over to "Satan". As for the false prophet Paul, who "commits lawlessness" (Matthew 13:40), at "the end of the age", "the son of man will send forth his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all stumbling blocks (Peter), and those who commit lawlessness (Paul)" (Mt 13:41). Well, here we are at the "end of the age". What did you expect would happen? When the sandy foundation washes away, and the house of Peter and Paul "falls" (Mt 7:27), what do you think will happen to those hanging on them (Isaiah 22:25)? They will be "cut off" (Isaiah 22:25). And to make it perfectly clear, Paul is not my brother.
     
  19. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Why aren't you like other Messianic Jews they believe Peter and Paul; yet obey the Law of Moses?
     
  20. 2ndpillar

    2ndpillar Well-Known Member

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    I am not a "Messianic Jew", and if they obeyed the "Law of Moses", they wouldn't follow Peter or Paul.

    Matthew 23:2 “The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.…
     
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