• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is it time to punish false accusers of rape/sexual assault?

Curious George

Veteran Member
Not really but what I am concerned about is equity in the justice system concerning the accused and the accuser. I am a firm believer that prior to arbitration the accused ought to not be subject to ridicule, loss of work, smeared and the like without due process. I believe that the law concerning being falsely accused and the compensatory punishment given to the one that does the false accusation should reflect the time and the psychological harm that it creates.
Sounds like you do not favor free press. It also sounds like you favor a victim centered approach to law. People will act of their own accord.
I again say rape and sexual assault is serious, but abusing the justice system with the deliberate attempt to do harm is also serious and there should be a law to reflect that.
I agree let us punish all rapists and false accusers. But how are we to determine who is who without investigation that is sure to impact the individuals involved. Moreover what about the false accusations of being a false accuser? Shall we have a penalty for that too?
Mr. Banks lost years of his life, had a record and from my understanding had to register as a sex offender. Banks will never get any financial compensation from that women because she does not have $2.6 million.
If you were the employer of that woman how would you keep her employed?
Imagine the people in the court system that don’t have money to pay back for libel/defamation cases? You’re talking about having your life being ruined momentarily and loss of invaluable time you’ll never get back not to mention the psychological trauma.
I think quite often of people without resources and how our legal system impacts them. I agree that we should do our best to reduce harm caused by the system itself. That however should not come at the integrity of our system.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
You aren't blaming the victims of false accusations, are you?
I'm saying men, if they are concerned about, should more pro-active about it like women are expected to be. Women get "avoiding rape" conversations, perhaps men need "avoiding false accusations" conversations. Now of course men need to learn to keep their hands and parts to themselves and women not taking advantage of such a situation is what is needed, but society as a whole has little interest in what others need to do. The dialogue that has followed the MeToo movement strongly indicates we aren't interested in really making any meaningful changes. It's easy to not rape, just as it's easy to not kill people, but women get "how to avoid rape" talks instead of "don't rape" conversations happening. Avoiding certain types of people is a necessary life skill, but men aren't educated in this - perhaps because a man is expected to be able to take care of himself in any situation, and many men would view it as a demerit against a man's masculinity if he refrained from having sex with a woman of questionable character because he's concerned things could go bad.
Ideally, what we need are for everyone to realize what's going on and play their part to help. Realistically, that won't happen and "avoiding rape" and "avoiding certain people" are probably the best any of us alive today will be able to get.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I'm saying men, if they are concerned about, should more pro-active about it like women are expected to be. Women get "avoiding rape" conversations, perhaps men need "avoiding false accusations" conversations. Now of course men need to learn to keep their hands and parts to themselves and women not taking advantage of such a situation is what is needed, but society as a whole has little interest in what others need to do. The dialogue that has followed the MeToo movement strongly indicates we aren't interested in really making any meaningful changes. It's easy to not rape, just as it's easy to not kill people, but women get "how to avoid rape" talks instead of "don't rape" conversations happening. Avoiding certain types of people is a necessary life skill, but men aren't educated in this - perhaps because a man is expected to be able to take care of himself in any situation, and many men would view it as a demerit against a man's masculinity if he refrained from having sex with a woman of questionable character because he's concerned things could go bad.
Ideally, what we need are for everyone to realize what's going on and play their part to help. Realistically, that won't happen and "avoiding rape" and "avoiding certain people" are probably the best any of us alive today will be able to get.
Of course, bad judgement will afflict all people at times.
We need a judicial system which treats them all as fairly as possible.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
We need a judicial system which treats them all as fairly as possible.
The only suggestion I have for that one is to burn what we have from the ground and rebuild it from the ground up, preferably with some fail safes installed, somehow, to safe guard the system against the privilege of money/outcomes based on what lawyer you can afford. I know that we could probably measure this by comparing the success rate of public defenders to "regular" lawyers, given a PD in our current system can't work the magic a "regular" lawyer can, but short of impaling lawyers and judges who corrupt the system and displaying the dying bodies in front of every law school I have no idea how to about achieving a more fair and equitable legal system. Other than that lawyers should definitely not have much of a say in how this new system would look.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The only suggestion I have for that one is to burn what we have from the ground and rebuild it from the ground up, preferably with some fail safes installed, somehow, to safe guard the system against the privilege of money/outcomes based on what lawyer you can afford. I know that we could probably measure this by comparing the success rate of public defenders to "regular" lawyers, given a PD in our current system can't work the magic a "regular" lawyer can, but short of impaling lawyers and judges who corrupt the system and displaying the dying bodies in front of every law school I have no idea how to about achieving a more fair and equitable legal system. Other than that lawyers should definitely not have much of a say in how this new system would look.
The only that would happen is if a coup installed me in power.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
The only that would happen is if a coup installed me in power.
Just say when, and I'm there. I'd probably be more effective in your coup anyways since I wouldn't have to teach anyone how to load, shoot, and care for a gun, unlike a Leftist coup where us far Lefties are the ones who consistently know our guns (and support gun ownership) and would get stuck training legions who have never held a gun in their lives.
Or for the coup do we bombard the lawyers with tons of fish and honey and let Wu get an early start on consuming/storing fat for his next hibernation (I personally would find this method more amusing....guns are expected but a hungry raging bear is terrifying)?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Just say when, and I'm there. I'd probably be more effective in your coup anyways since I wouldn't have to teach anyone how to load, shoot, and care for a gun, unlike a Leftist coup where us far Lefties are the ones who consistently know our guns (and support gun ownership) and would get stuck training legions who have never held a gun in their lives.
Or for the coup do we bombard the lawyers with tons of fish and honey and let Wu get an early start on consuming/storing fat for his next hibernation (I personally would find this method more amusing....guns are expected but a hungry raging bear is terrifying)?
Of course, you must beat either Red Dragon94 or Quetzal in the kal-if-fee.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
In the UK, anybody who is proved to have 'Perverted the Course of Justice' in any criminal prosecution will be convicted of that crime, and most of those convicts end up in prison.

That includes deliberate false accusers of sexual offences.

Well at least the UK has it right. For me I wouldn't care about money. To attain compensatory damages may take a long time and by then you're in the unemployment line trying to make whatever money you can while the person here is scott free.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Not a lawyer but I take interest in employment laws and contracts due to my own needs.

Ok, but it doesn't make you an expert in this case. I would need written proof of your claims henceforth concern employment law.

At Will still covers illegal termination such as civil rights laws in general.

Again the burden of proof in this matter is on the person that has been wrongfully terminated. This person would have to prove not just criminally, but also to the occupation that the accusation was false. Even then with the amount of money you spend with legal fees and the time loss you are better off getting another job than sit there and fight it out. Things of this nature is best left for people with money not people like you or I. Jobs can find bogus reasons to not hire you back unless the hospital is clearly in the wrong.

My point was that not all of the mob's reaction can be laid at the feet of the accuser. Members of the mob have their own mind and their own principles, or lack of.

Well if you haven't learned from the situation with Kavanaugh as springboard in the case of potential false accusations then I don't know what to tell you. Mob mentality does matter in cases of social media. Social media is a powerful tool.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Of course, you must beat either Red Dragon94 or Quetzal in the kal-if-fee.
Nope. Just an angry ***** with some incredibly, extremely, and disturbingly violent fantasies and thoughts. "The Queen of Blood" is what your established army shall come to call me before the coup has even completed stage one. If the resistance puts enough into fighting back to really stoke my fires, the nickname will become "Impaler Princess." The end result will be a world gloriously free of lawyers.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Sounds like you do not favor free press. It also sounds like you favor a victim centered approach to law. People will act of their own accord.

I'm not a legal scholar therefore with the particulars of law such as "freedom of the press" I will say that I'm skeptical of the press itself. The press has shown me that even journalistic integrity can be called into question case in point I repeat again the Marc Lamont Hill situation. Hill has been smeared as an anti-Semitic due to using six words yet the fruits of his work in the region has not been considered, only the usage of his words in a speech. This type of deliberate journalism which paints an individual to sway public opinion is the reason why people do not do their own investigation because the press will do it for them by cherry picking and guiding narratives to a certain point of view. So although I am for freedom of the press I am also skeptical of it.

Moreover what about the false accusations of being a false accuser? Shall we have a penalty for that too?

If this is in regards to criminality to disprove the accusation of lying due to being accused of being a liar is complex but in regards to criminality I believe the concept of perjury covers this.

If you were the employer of that woman how would you keep her employed?

I'm not sure if I follow. How would I keep her employed despite knowing after the fact that she lied? This guy was very popular in the city of Long Beach and people loved him. If it has been proven she lied and this man was wrongfully accused based on her lying I'd terminate her just as companies terminate people for posting inappropriate things on Facebook. If her integrity has been compromised she is a liability for my business.
 
Last edited:

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Nope. Just an angry ***** with some incredibly, extremely, and disturbingly violent fantasies and thoughts. "The Queen of Blood" is what your established army shall come to call me before the coup has even completed stage one. If the resistance puts enough into fighting back to really stoke my fires, the nickname will become "Impaler Princess." The end result will be a world gloriously free of lawyers.
Sounds all Game Of Thrones.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Now of course men need to learn to keep their hands and parts to themselves.

I am disappointed that you even wrote this. You know I have a high regard for your views and although I agree with the above, it just stinks of "misandry" in the sense that it insinuates that it is in our "nature" to be inappropriate therefore we need to learn to keep our hands to ourselves.

I would take the egalitarian approach and say "people, need to learn to keep their hands to themselves." People. I had to disregard the rest of the post because this is exactly what I didn't want happen is this gender war issue. Fact is, there are a lot of women in this country who do not see the long arm of the law and who abuse the justice system. There are a lot of women with immoral motives to set men up. for Christ sakes they have websites for women who are gold diggers that will pinpoint the exact hotel of professional athletes for reasons to hook up. I believe these websites put these women in positions to "bag an athlete" or for those with malevolent reasons, perhaps use sexual assault as a reason to set someone up.

The act of false accusations happens more to professionals than your average working class person which is why and I'm just going to throw out a guess here is why the percentages are low. I would believe most professionals and athletes do not want the legal nightmare and hassle of dragging a situation through court because of time and money.

Funny you speak on learning to keep hands to themselves....you know how many women run on my arms and compliment my physique? Or touch my butt? If I told on every female and sent them to HR I'd be isolated and not only get called a rat but most likely be called gay. I think women are the last ones to tell men to keep their hands to themselves.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I am disappointed that you even wrote this.
I'm not. Women get plenty of "avoiding rape" talks. Men get no "don't rape" talks. As a man, rape is hardly relevant unless someone close to you has been raped. As a woman, rape is very relevant and the pressure is put on them to prevent it.
My own anecdotal evidence is I went nearly 30 years without rape being much of a concern and something people weren't really bringing up around me. But once I began to transition, and socialize as a female, with other women, the subject of rape came up within the first year, and it didn't focus on the fact that men have to make the decision and go through with it but rather that women need to take steps to reduce their chances of being raped. Men have no equivalent when it comes to avoiding and staying away from women who seem like they are going to be problematic.
for Christ sakes they have websites for women who are gold diggers that will pinpoint the exact hotel of professional athletes for reasons to hook up.
So? Where there are buyers there are sellers. That has nothing to do with women but men who are willing to part with their money for the company of a woman.
Funny you speak on learning to keep hands to themselves....you know how many women run on my arms and compliment my physique? Or touch my butt? If I told on every female and sent them to HR I'd be isolated and not only get called a rat but most likely be called gay. I think women are the last ones to tell men to keep their hands to themselves.
I addressed that early when I mentioned that it viewed as a demerit against a man's masculinity if he complains. And then I went on to say we don't live in an ideal world, so the best we are left with for now is "avoiding rape" and "don't rape/keep your hands to yourself." I was even pretty clear there is the "ideal world" of bubbles, rainbows, and unicorns that we don't live in, and the "real world" we do live in. The ideal world would be equal and even. The real world isn't. We won't have ideal before we're dead, so we must learn to live in the world we have.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Sounds all Game Of Thrones.
Perhaps. I've had a life long fascination and obsession with Vlad Dracul III, a Wallachian warlord of emmense cruelty and barbarism, and one I'm surprised we haven't seen a counterpart of in Game of Thrones (though Cercie comes a bit close in how she will eliminate all who oppose her, but she probably doesn't have any basis in Vlad as Joeffry was way more into torture and he's a lightweight compared to Vlad).
So, just let me know where you want the forest of bodies on a stake to go. The "Forest of Impalement" scared the Ottoman Turks out of Wallachia, so I doubt any will want to go about practicing law in a "lawyerly way" after they see half the bar on a stake, with some gruesome details (perhaps fictional) coming from when Vlad killed Hamza Pasha, a commander of the Turkish army and maybe perhaps a former close associate of Vlad during his youth while he was a prisoner of the Turks.
The story goes, Vlad and Hamza were close, and Vlad made a leather falconry glove that was symbolic of their closeness. But after Vlad was released and reclaimed his father's throne, when the Sultan demanded tribute of money and boys, Vlad set up an ambush, killed off the Turkish group who came to collect the tribute, and allegedly before Vlad had Hamza impaled he stuck the leather glove on the stake, and the glove ended up sticking out of Hamza's mouth.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Ok, but it doesn't make you an expert in this case. I would need written proof of your claims henceforth concern employment law.



Again the burden of proof in this matter is on the person that has been wrongfully terminated. This person would have to prove not just criminally, but also to the occupation that the accusation was false. Even then with the amount of money you spend with legal fees and the time loss you are better off getting another job than sit there and fight it out. Things of this nature is best left for people with money not people like you or I. Jobs can find bogus reasons to not hire you back unless the hospital is clearly in the wrong.



Well if you haven't learned from the situation with Kavanaugh as springboard in the case of potential false accusations then I don't know what to tell you. Mob mentality does matter in cases of social media. Social media is a powerful tool.


In Europe, in Italy particularly, labor legislation is so conspicuous and complex, that firing someone for no just cause, is impossible. You will have to pay as employer, lots of compensation.
The Kavanaugh case would make any Italian jurist laugh....
Dr. Blasey Ford accused someone without evidence or witnesses after 30 years....she would be tried for defamation, and fined heavily.
 
Last edited:

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Dr. Blasey Ford accused someone without evidence or witnesses after 30 years....she would be tried for defamation, and fined heavily.
Her lack of evidence worked for Kavanaugh.
But this lack would also work for her.
She could not be convicted of anything.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Her lack of evidence worked for Kavanaugh.
But this lack would also work for her.
She could not be convicted of anything.
Our judicial system is different...the burden of proof is always on the accuser, and defamation is a very grave crime (art. 595 Penal Code). Besides, we have a system called "degrees of credibility" or "degrees of reliability", which measure the genuineness of "crime news" ...(forgive me...I'm trying to translate Italian juridic terms)
I guess a person who reports a rape attempt after 30 years when the alleged rapist becomes a SCOTUS judge has very low credibility

-No eyewitness confirmed her version
-Kavanaugh has no criminal records of the same nature
 
Top