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Is it right that Israel Folau should get the sack for his 'Hell awaits gay people' comments?

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by The_Fisher_King, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    His employer forbade expression of what he believed, even on his own time and dime, demonstrating ownership of an employee. As in the link I provided, they behaved like a cult, claimed time that wasn't theirs and made him afraid of his bosses -- all signs that he was not treated just as an employee but as a slave. In general sports leagues are frequently seen to use enslavement techniques like these. They want full dedication, and they act like a military cult.

    This is an employer, not the rest of society.

    Its unethical to purchase a human even when there is a contract. Indentured servitude is supposedly outlawed for that reason, but you argue for an exception in sports leagues and because the pay is high.

    Contracts containing illegal provisions are at least partially void.

    Its not their call to decide whether his religion is hateful, particularly not on his own time. Clearly the sport doesn't reject his values though his employers do. Rugby is not a religion is it? Since when? Cult.

    Its unethical to own another person even if you pay them handsomely. Therefore the terms of his employment are unethical.

    I found his comments to be unrelated to me and therefore not personally offensive but still out there on his flying saucer. We aren't talking about someone running a nuclear missile silo but just a ball player. He's not killing anybody by being an idiot. If he were talking about me I'd be pretty upset about it, but I wouldn't expect the sports league to go after him. It would be a civil matter between him and myself.

    On the positive side I'm glad that Christians can be legally oppressed for holding views that are contrary to popular acceptance and which could hurt someone's feelings.
     
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  2. Rival

    Rival Unicorn Noahide
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    If he is not allowed to have an opinion without being fired or banned, then he's not really allowed his opinion is he?
     
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  3. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    It is just the PC cult backed by those that are overly emotional.
     
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  4. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The job that one chooses is one's own choice. That that job will limit what you say or do in your public life means that you chose to follow those rules. It is hypocritical to agree to follow certain rules and then complain when one breaks them.

    You appear to be conflating freedom of speech, which is the freedom to speak without government punishment with limiting oneself by agreeing to work at a certain job.
     
  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Morality clauses have nothing to do with the "PC cult". They have been in existence for generations. I would be willing to bet that he violated a morality clause in his contract.
     
  6. Rival

    Rival Unicorn Noahide
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    So let me get this straight:

    - He can't have the job he wants, or many jobs nowadays, in which he can give his opinion.

    - He can't post his opinion on social media.

    - He can't say his opinion in public because he's 'representative'.

    So where and when exactly is he free to express himself? At home in his kitchen to a tomato?
     
  7. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    So the NRL also disowned him? Wow, I knew they were trying to stamp out a lot of the “problematic” aspects of Rugby culture. But I honestly thought they’d entertain the possibility of signing him. At least after a public apology or something.
     
  8. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Pretty much all employers have clauses about posting to social media.
    Now sure where you’ve been. When I worked as a checkout chick, even then I had a social media clause I had to abide by. As a freaking checkout chick!!

    If he wanted to be free of consequences he should have privated the message so only those in his inner circle could see it. Like everyone else does these days.
     
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  9. Rival

    Rival Unicorn Noahide
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    That's not really fair though. One's life should be separate from one's work and the company shouldn't be policing his social life. They should care about what he does at work.
     
  10. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    Then someone merely leaks it.

    The point is not weaponizing employment termination because people hold views someone does not like. Think about it. If I went up to every person that was religious I could find dirt which offends someone just to get them fired from wrong-think. How many people do you think I could find that think I am spiritually "screwed" by not believing in (a) God. Not very inclusive is it? Should they be fired for such a view?
     
  11. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Who said life is fair?
    Rugby Australia has officially condemned racist and homophobic sentiments for years. It’s literally in their mission statement, open to the public.
    Players can say some stupid things. Usually this is due to a night out, so they often get a stern talking to and that’s the end of it.
    All players in all codes are held as public representatives of their respective employers. That’s just how it is. It’s how it’s always been.
    What that essentially means is anything they say publicly, and all their social media profiles are far more heavily public than normal, is automatically associated to their employers. Employers who then have full and legal rights to condemn or disavow anything they deem incompatible to their core values they wish to represent to the public. Much like a Christian evangelical could be stood down from a position for having an affair or whatever morality clause they agreed to abide by.
    That’s the reality each and every single player has agreed to. No one forced them to agree to that. That’s the price of pursuing that particular career. If they didn’t want that, then they could choose a less scrutinised job.
    Israel basically broke the agreed upon code of conduct. Most likely violated his contract. To fire him is perfectly legal.
     
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  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Adults know this. If one wants a job with any sort of public exposure what one does publicly can cause one to lose that job. It is a choice that one makes when he applies for that job.

    You do not seem to understand the he is free to do anything that he wants, as long as it is legal. But he also has to realize that there may be consequences for what one does publicly. That is the way the world works for adults. Actions can have consequences. It is best to think rather than spewing hatred of others.
     
  13. Rival

    Rival Unicorn Noahide
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    IMO this is just not right though. His opinions have nothing to do with how he plays rugby.
     
  14. Rival

    Rival Unicorn Noahide
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    Yes but he is effectively being erased by being silenced on every platform and at work just because he happens to have out of vogue opinions. So he is not really free in any sense; he's being thought policed. He didn't even do any actions, he just wrote a sentence.
     
  15. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That is a possibility. One's choices in employment may limit one's recreation. That is the way that the world has always worked. This is not a new thing. The only thing that is different is now that people that it used to be okay to disparage are no longer open targets. In the U.S. black people were free game for negative comments for quite some time. Guess what, if one goes spouting the N word today he is likely to be fired for that too. Oh the injustice of it all!!:rolleyes: Please.
     
  16. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    If this was leaked he’d probably make a public apology, be fined an insignificant amount of money and I dunno maybe have like a week suspension.
    A media leak is normally addressed much more leniently than something posted publicly. That’s just how the codes work. It’s legal and that’s what Israel agreed to, of his own free will.
    Rosanne Barr lost her show due to comments she made outside of work. I mean the Nazis are free to say whatever they want. I doubt many employers would tolerate them publicly expressing such thoughts as the face of their brand. So they have the good sense to hide their identities. Employers do this sort of thing all the time. Why care now?
     
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  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The point is that it affects the public image of the organization. They do not want to be seen as a refuge for homophobes and religion based hatred. Public companies have to worry about their public image.
     
  18. Rival

    Rival Unicorn Noahide
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    Yes, on their turf. On the rugby field. Not on someone's social media page, away from work.
     
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  19. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    That being the case I think it well within the NFL right to fire the Kap. If he wanted to get on his knees in front of the PD on his own time, no problem.
     
  20. Shad

    Shad Veteran Member

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    He wasn't fire. He opt-ed out of his own contract for a better deal. No team wanted him. Kap then sued with the NFL settling to make him go away.

    Pretty much it. Instead he used the spotlight so got backlash for it and some of his other acts.
     
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