1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Is it right that Israel Folau should get the sack for his 'Hell awaits gay people' comments?

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by The_Fisher_King, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    10,126
    Ratings:
    +3,109
    Religion:
    Christian
    I think his sacking is a swell idea.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    3,017
    Ratings:
    +1,579
    Religion:
    diversity
    I vote: "yes"; he should be sacked.

    Rugby Australia is adopting a political position as part of its mission / vision. That mission / vision is inclusion.

    The same thing could and should happen if someone who is working on a political campaign chooses to publicly promote beliefs and ideas which are counter to the campaign.

    If it goes against the mission / vision, and the person has been warned, then termination is fair.

    I think that the example that @Rival presents is a good one, but it is not equivalent unless the mission / vision of the company she is speaking about is anti-gay.

    If being anti-gay is part of the mission / vision of the company; and its employees are promoting pro-gay issues; then I do not think that Rival's company would be criticized for terminating those specific pro-gay activists.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    25,281
    Ratings:
    +7,835
    Religion:
    Liberal Christian
    So fire everyone who doesn't agree with them on all political points. That's a great idea. Starve the *******.
     
  4. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    25,281
    Ratings:
    +7,835
    Religion:
    Liberal Christian
    No way no way. Business is business. Personal life is personal life. Its none of their business what I do in my personal life.
     
  5. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    30,203
    Ratings:
    +14,623
    So if you ran a business and one of your employees were making antisemitic statements while representing your company, you wouldn't fire him?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    12,901
    Ratings:
    +6,214
    Religion:
    None
    Next you can get fired for reading Tom Sawyer.
    It has the N word.
     
  7. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    150,133
    Ratings:
    +42,248
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    Firing someone whose personal behavior harms my business is good practice.
    But sometimes it could be required by law, lest I be prosecuted.
    If I had a real estate agent in my employ who made such comments which
    became public, even not associated with my business, it could cause my
    company a fair housing violation, & a licensing violation.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    30,203
    Ratings:
    +14,623
    Hardly comparable, but okay.
     
  9. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    4,003
    Ratings:
    +2,549
    Religion:
    ?
    I don't think he should have been fired, because what he was saying had nothing to do with rugby.

    I wouldn't mind seeing him ridiculed and shamed to dust however. That's the only thing that's going to get people with their mind set against groups like this thinking. Hit their ego and keep punching until they're crying like a baby.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    25,281
    Ratings:
    +7,835
    Religion:
    Liberal Christian
    His job depends upon skillful manipulation of stuffed skins, and he doesn't represent the league. They'd like to claim he does, so that they can fire him. They just don't like him and are looking for a reason. I worked for a tech support company (for a few weeks) that wanted me to cheat customers, so I quit. That was me doing things to people, and it didn't matter that I was representing some low down no good cheaters. It was my responsibility and my reputation as an individual that counted.

    This is a rugby player -- one person. He can't represent all the other players unless he is making official statements. I have never managed a business, but I once worked for a foreman who hated all Jews and told me so. I did not quit. He didn't represent me. He was a different person.

    If I ran a business, and one of my employees was making antisemitic statements while representing my company I would be a pretty stupid employer. Saying that every employee represents the company and therefore must espouse my personal beliefs is enslavement talk.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    3,017
    Ratings:
    +1,579
    Religion:
    diversity
    May I present an extreme example that I hope will make my case and get your feedback?

    Let's go with the example of a political campaign to elect @Revoltingest for President.

    In this example, you are a spokesperson for the campaign, and your job is to appear in the commercials promoting the Most Honorable Revoltingest.

    Then, in the evenings, you are on the street handing out fliers and posting on social media anti-Revoltingest propaganda?

    Is Rev required to maintain you as an employee in your current position even though your actions are opposed to the mission of the campaign which is to get Revoltingest elected?
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    3,017
    Ratings:
    +1,579
    Religion:
    diversity
    Yes... I agree... in your personal life. Posting on social media is not personal... it's public.

    Same thing with your antisemitic boss... that wasn't public, right?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    25,281
    Ratings:
    +7,835
    Religion:
    Liberal Christian
    There are 2 extremes not just one. One extreme is that employers today can't easily try out new hires, and they are mired in lawsuits by bad hires. I get that, and I grasp that anybody can sue anybody for anything. The other extreme is that: employers (not my friend Rev but in general) often make extreme claims on our privacy. Not every dam thing is their business even if it might somehow affect their business.

    Every employee does things that hurt the employer's business. If we sleep 10% too little we hurt the employer's business. Coffee addictions hurt their business. Being overweight hurts their business. Take a personal day -- hurts their business. Don't like Trump? It hurts their business. Don't have a girlfriend? It hurts their business. Everything we do has some little implication for their business, so they want us to take drug tests, carry spy devices on our bodies. They want our credit histories, our facebook passwords and just about everything. Its an argument for ownership. Its a creeping encroachment on personal space, and its not Ok.

    Every employee does not represent the business at all times. When I am not being paid I'm definitely not representing a company. If I'm on salary and I leave the premises I don't represent the company, and I don't owe the company anything.

    Now Rev brings up a point that sometimes employees really do represent a company. Fine, they sometimes do; but its farcical to say every employee represents the company especially to claim that we do so "At all times." Its unfair and taking ownership of something that doesn't belong to the company. You can't just tell every employee "You represent us now at all times." That's like saying "We own you."
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    150,133
    Ratings:
    +42,248
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    Professional athletes have a sports task to do.
    But toward what end?
    Making money for the owners.
    Public image is part of that for these athletes whose real job is to entertain the public.
    And most of that public is repelled by his comments.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    54,753
    Ratings:
    +13,363
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    Just as his team is allowed not to avail themselves of Folau's services.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    150,133
    Ratings:
    +42,248
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    If someone's religious or political commentary doesn't affect my business, then it's not a factor.
    But if it causes me legal or financial difficulty, they get an opportunity to correct the situation...
    ....or the boot.

    Consider another scenario....
    If a team owner created an offensive public image, one which by association adversely
    affected a player's personal or professional life, then that player should be able to resign.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Rival

    Rival Noachide
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Messages:
    12,208
    Ratings:
    +13,348
    Religion:
    בת נח
    It's why though. I find that sacking someone for having a controversial opinion is petty. It's nothing to do with your company. Can he play rugby? Yes. Can he play well? Yes. OK then, that's all his job is. If he started carrying out attacks on gay people, or raping people or whatever, then sure, sack him. But he just has an opinion.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  18. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    25,281
    Ratings:
    +7,835
    Religion:
    Liberal Christian
    His detractors are out for blood, and his faithful league is happy to sacrifice him to appease the masses and make a profit from the scandal. His public image has been spoiled by an act of God, and they wish to profit from it.
     
  19. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    150,133
    Ratings:
    +42,248
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    It was no random act of God.
    The player made the post.
    Business is about profit.
    Someone who harms it should be canned.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2015
    Messages:
    4,003
    Ratings:
    +2,549
    Religion:
    ?
    In many situations, however, it comes down to humoring the people who can't see past these things, even though the subject at hand may have no bearing on a person's professional life. So you fire them, and cave to popular public opinion, which gives you a different sort of PR problem from another (albeit minority) angle. For example, people like me may boycott your business from that point on, knowing that your constitution is pretty weak.

    Believe me, I get that if something is causing you legal or financial difficulty, then there needs to be some kind of "fix" to go after. But I am sure there are cases where it is just the employer caving to special snowflakes. Oh, how proud they must be.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...