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Is it right or wrong?

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
When we discuss with other people from different view and different religions/spiritual paths, sometimes we can see people say, Your view is wrong. But How do we know?

My experience from discussing with different people from different religious paths, i must say that even i hold my own belief and have no doubt about the teaching i cultivating, I can honestly not say to someone that. Your religion and your religious belief is wrong. (i have said this in the past, but realised it was wrong view)
But if i are unsure of why the person believe what they do, i can ask , why do you belive this? and then i can investigate this from my own path and see if they also can have right in their view.

I am sure we all looking for same the truth. But our viewpoint are different.
I found the truth i looking within me and right infront of me.

I think it's possible to respect people's consciences even if they do not see eye to eye with us and we think them wrong.

I don't think it's wrong to think someone is wrong.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
When we discuss with other people from different view and different religions/spiritual paths, sometimes we can see people say, Your view is wrong. But How do we know?

My experience from discussing with different people from different religious paths, i must say that even i hold my own belief and have no doubt about the teaching i cultivating, I can honestly not say to someone that. Your religion and your religious belief is wrong. (i have said this in the past, but realised it was wrong view)
But if i are unsure of why the person believe what they do, i can ask , why do you belive this? and then i can investigate this from my own path and see if they also can have right in their view.

I am sure we all looking for same the truth. But our viewpoint are different.
I found the truth i looking within me and right infront of me.

When I say "wrong" unless it is wrong on a purely philosophical level (in which case it really doesn't matter), I mean your belief system hurts others or hurts yourself.

If you have a belief system that says if you are going to be punished for not being "courageous" and going out and slaughtering others in the name of your faith, that belief system is wrong. Courage is not aggression but a quality of the heart.

Likewise, a system that puts oneself at risk by worrying so much about what others think that you try to prove you aren't -phobic against some group that obviously means you harm, you are wrong and deserve to learn firsthand what happens when you value saving face over your own safety and your loved ones' safety.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
When we discuss with other people from different view and different religions/spiritual paths, sometimes we can see people say, Your view is wrong. But How do we know?

My experience from discussing with different people from different religious paths, i must say that even i hold my own belief and have no doubt about the teaching i cultivating, I can honestly not say to someone that. Your religion and your religious belief is wrong. (i have said this in the past, but realised it was wrong view)
But if i are unsure of why the person believe what they do, i can ask , why do you belive this? and then i can investigate this from my own path and see if they also can have right in their view.

I am sure we all looking for same the truth. But our viewpoint are different.
I found the truth i looking within me and right infront of me.

I believe in the oneness and unity of all religions. That they all teach truth. I have the Holy Books of all the Faiths and read thrm regularly. The Dhammapada, the Torah, the Gospels, Zend Avesta, the Quran, the Book of Certitude. These are wondrous works with so much wisdom and profound spiritual knowledge.

When I immerse myself in these oceans of light I feel surrounded with love and truth. The spiritual teachings all teach oneness, virtues and to love all humanity. I cannot just believe in one religion only because I am a lover of truth and truth is not contained in one religion only so if I just said only my religion is true I would be closing my mind to so much wisdom and truth that’s exists in the other faiths.

Buddha, Muhammad, the Bab, Christ, Krishna, Baha’u’llah, Zoroaster, Moses are all the beloved of my heart. I see no difference between Them and see Them as Suns of Truth, Universal Educators Of humankind.

My religion teaches to love. So if for example I denied Christianity or Buddhism or other religions which also teach to love, then I would in essence be denying my own religion. To me to deny one is to deny all of them because they all teach truth and are all equal.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I believe in the oneness and unity of all religions. That they all teach truth. I have the Holy Books of all the Faiths and read thrm regularly. The Dhammapada, the Torah, the Gospels, Zend Avesta, the Quran, the Book of Certitude. These are wondrous works with so much wisdom and profound spiritual knowledge.

When I immerse myself in these oceans of light I feel surrounded with love and truth. The spiritual teachings all teach oneness, virtues and to love all humanity. I cannot just believe in one religion only because I am a lover of truth and truth is not contained in one religion only so if I just said only my religion is true I would be closing my mind to so much wisdom and truth that’s exists in the other faiths.

Buddha, Muhammad, the Bab, Christ, Krishna, Baha’u’llah, Zoroaster, Moses are all the beloved of my heart. I see no difference between Them and see Them as Suns of Truth, Universal Educators Of humankind.

My religion teaches to love. So if for example I denied Christianity or Buddhism or other religions which also teach to love, then I would in essence be denying my own religion. To me to deny one is to deny all of them because they all teach truth and are all equal.
I notice we think very simmilar, in my case i follow only the word of the Buddha, but i respect and read other religious texts, not to cultivate them, but to understand people who follow this teachings :)
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
When we discuss with other people from different view and different religions/spiritual paths, sometimes we can see people say, Your view is wrong. But How do we know?

My experience from discussing with different people from different religious paths, i must say that even i hold my own belief and have no doubt about the teaching i cultivating, I can honestly not say to someone that. Your religion and your religious belief is wrong. (i have said this in the past, but realised it was wrong view)
But if i am unsure of why the person believe what they do, i can ask , why do you belive this? and then i can investigate this from my own path and see if they also can have right in their view.

I am sure we all looking for same the truth. But our viewpoint are different.
I found the truth i looking within me and right infront of me.
I'll sometimes dismiss a person's view as wrong. I don't decide this until I find out exactly what they believe and why.

But it's important to remember something about religious claims and views: they generally include a claim of certainty.

A person of some religion might say "I believe in God X, and that Prophet Y is his messenger, and that this message was communicated in Book Z," but along with that, they also say - either explicitly or through their actions - "all these beliefs have been demonstrated true with such certainty that I'm justified in rejecting all conflicting views" and "all these beliefs have been demonstrated true with such certainty that I'm justified in making these beliefs the main focus of my life."

If we can't tell whether the central claims of a religion are true or false, then those two claims are necessarily false.

If a religious adherent can't explain why they believe what they believe, then this is evidence - not necessarily proof, but evidence - that those two claims are false as well.

Not all religions include these two claims, but in my experience, most do... and virtually all of them include the second.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I'll sometimes dismiss a person's view as wrong. I don't decide this until I find out exactly what they believe and why.

But it's important to remember something about religious claims and views: they generally include a claim of certainty.

A person of some religion might say "I believe in God X, and that Prophet Y is his messenger, and that this message was communicated in Book Z," but along with that, they also say - either explicitly or through their actions - "all these beliefs have been demonstrated true with such certainty that I'm justified in rejecting all conflicting views" and "all these beliefs have been demonstrated true with such certainty that I'm justified in making these beliefs the main focus of my life."

If we can't tell whether the central claims of a religion are true or false, then those two claims are necessarily false.

If a religious adherent can't explain why they believe what they believe, then this is evidence - not necessarily proof, but evidence - that those two claims are false as well.

Not all religions include these two claims, but in my experience, most do... and virtually all of them include the second.
A religious text is a guideline for a person to attain the things the guideline talk about.
But to attain it the person must practice, on the path of practice, they will go from not knowing to understanding the text. when they understand the text and make it a part of their daily practice they will attain wisdom about why they practice actually work according to the text.
For those who do not practice they will not see or understand the truth within the text.

To belive it is true is only 1/3 of the practice,
1/3 Believing
1/3 Practice
1/3 Understanding

Combined get you closer to the truth
This is how i have learned to understand it. But i know you may see it differently :)
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
A religious text is a guideline for a person to attain the things the guideline talk about.
But to attain it the person must practice, on the path of practice, they will go from not knowing to understanding the text.
And you think this works for any text?

when they understand the text and make it a part of their daily practice they will attain wisdom about why they practice actually work according to the text.
For those who do not practice they will not see or understand the truth within the text.
If a person can't recognize a thing as true without significant effort and conditioning to recognize it as true, this suggests to me that it probably isn't true.

To belive it is true is only 1/3 of the practice,
1/3 Believing
1/3 Practice
1/3 Understanding

Combined get you closer to the truth
This is how i have learned to understand it. But i know you may see it differently :)
That's putting it mildly.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
And you think this works for any text?


If a person can't recognize a thing as true without significant effort and conditioning to recognize it as true, this suggests to me that it probably isn't true.


That's putting it mildly.
Question 1: Yes
How do you suggest we learn if we do not study the text? and then practice it?
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Question 1: Yes
Including two texts that contradict each other?

How do you suggest we learn if we do not study the text? and then practice it?
Studying is fine: to evaluate a claim, you need to know what the claim actually says.

But practicing, OTOH: I take this to mean living as if the claim is true. Sure: if you do this lonv enough, you might find yourself convinced that the claim is true, but would your belief really be justified?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Including two texts that contradict each other?


Studying is fine: to evaluate a claim, you need to know what the claim actually says.

But practicing, OTOH: I take this to mean living as if the claim is true. Sure: if you do this lonv enough, you might find yourself convinced that the claim is true, but would your belief really be justified?
Question 1: Yes because the texts may have been written/come from someone who are on different level of wisdom/understanding of same truth.

It is like saying living according to science is only possible for those who understand the truth in the science.
A reigious person who have studied the texts and see they fit in to the normal life of every day understand that the text telling the truth. But again sometimes the higher truth of the text can only be understood by cultivating the mind to reach it.

But i do have a question. Science say they hold the truth by evidence, right? Why do then science suddenly experience that new evidence come up that contradict the previous evidence? what happen to the truth in the previous evidence?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
When we discuss with other people from different view and different religions/spiritual paths, sometimes we can see people say, Your view is wrong. But How do we know?
I don't tend to say that people's entire belief set is "wrong." I ask them questions to try and persuade them to see their belief from my perspective. And my perspective is this:

"I don't know that you are right... can you demonstrate the truth for me?"

The vast majority of the time, there is no demonstration forthcoming... and almost always, I know that this will be the case. Hence my questions may often times seem like pronouncements that the person is "wrong." But I don't tend to say that directly... all I usually say is "How do you know you are right?"
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Yes, but a lot of people mislabel, because the do not know how to recognize, love.
And therefor, many of these same people mislabel, because they cannot comprehend, religion
Just as they think love is lust, or servitude, or subjugation
they think religion is emotional fanaticism, blind obedience, and intellectual submission.

How do we respect the religious beliefs of others?
when they are not really even religious beliefs, but merely expressions of their own ignorance, confusion, and past victimization being mislabeled as, 'religion'?

That is an easy question "How do we respect the religious beliefs of others?"
By not demeaning them by belittling their belief

Do you tell your child he is stupid or do you belittle his faith?
I hope not ... why tell others? For God's sake we talk about someone's faith

Are we not all children in our spiritual wisdom as seen from the "eye of God" (being Omniscient)
If you belittle someone's faith, you even belittle the Divine who created that "Divine embodiment"

So respect is very simple: Just don't (arrogantly) tell others they are wrong in their belief (show by example what you believe in)

Why this is so simple to understand?
To hurt someone physical is not good, we all know.
Stepping on someone's soul/feeling can damage much more (broken leg can heal, broken heart not so easy)
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I don't tend to say that people's entire belief set is "wrong." I ask them questions to try and persuade them to see their belief from my perspective. And my perspective is this:

"I don't know that you are right... can you demonstrate the truth for me?"

The vast majority of the time, there is no demonstration forthcoming... and almost always, I know that this will be the case. Hence my questions may often times seem like pronouncements that the person is "wrong." But I don't tend to say that directly... all I usually say is "How do you know you are right?"
I also find it useful sometimes to grant all of the other person's premises to see whether I can use them to reach the conclusion they've arrived at.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
I also find it useful sometimes to grant all of the other person's premises to see whether I can use them to reach the conclusion they've arrived at.
This is a good point. I do this also, and didn't even think of it as one of the processes I might go through. "Provided we accept X, Y and Z, what can we infer about W as it is necessarily related?"
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
When we discuss with other people from different view and different religions/spiritual paths, sometimes we can see people say, Your view is wrong. But How do we know?

My experience from discussing with different people from different religious paths, i must say that even i hold my own belief and have no doubt about the teaching i cultivating, I can honestly not say to someone that. Your religion and your religious belief is wrong. (i have said this in the past, but realised it was wrong view)
But if i am unsure of why the person believe what they do, i can ask , why do you belive this? and then i can investigate this from my own path and see if they also can have right in their view.

I am sure we all looking for same the truth. But our viewpoint are different.
I found the truth i looking within me and right infront of me.
As one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I speak to others about religion a lot! And try to never say "but", rather, I find common ground. And just let the Bible speak, reading from the Scriptures. Hebrews 4:12 reveals Gods Word exerts power....more than my words can urge.
 

Jedster

Well-Known Member
As one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I speak to others about religion a lot! And try to never say "but", rather, I find common ground. And just let the Bible speak, reading from the Scriptures. Hebrews 4:12 reveals Gods Word exerts power....more than my words can urge.

So, could you speak to others(ie non-believers in the Bible) without using the Bible?
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
When we discuss with other people from different view and different religions/spiritual paths, sometimes we can see people say, Your view is wrong. But How do we know?

My experience from discussing with different people from different religious paths, i must say that even i hold my own belief and have no doubt about the teaching i cultivating, I can honestly not say to someone that. Your religion and your religious belief is wrong. (i have said this in the past, but realised it was wrong view)
But if i am unsure of why the person believe what they do, i can ask , why do you belive this? and then i can investigate this from my own path and see if they also can have right in their view.

I am sure we all looking for same the truth. But our viewpoint are different.
I found the truth i looking within me and right infront of me.

There is a story.


Blind men and an elephant - Wikipedia
 
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