Is it really that Hard?

[Ben Dhyan]

Greetings Ben. Thank you for taking the time to give us such an insightful response with such great points and conceptualizations. Your 'present understanding' has rewarded you with wondrous being and clarity of expression. Every point resonates well with my 'present understanding' as well.

One additional question related to the OP: Most feel that one must prepare the self for Enlightenment but that actually, Enlighenment is not under one's control. As many a mystic has said, it is by the 'Grace of God.' Do you have a view on this?

Hi a..1, appreciate your appreciation which is natural since our present understanding shares much common ground.

Yes, the experiences and subsequent learning derived from such in each and every life, can be considered preparation towards the ultimate goal of realization of what and who we really are. As in any learning process, prerequisite understanding of simple principles must be mastered before approaching an 'order of magnitude' next level of understanding.

Its doubltful that the mankind is really in control of the circumstances surrounding their existence at any stage given my understanding of the cosmic cycles of karma/reincarnation, but understand clearly what you mean. There is indeed a prerequisite level of worthiness that must be met prior to being granted the 'Presence of Grace' into which the soul is destined to reintegrate

The disciples/mystics who are subject to these tests of worthiness have been approved to undergo them and have likewise volunteered to undergo them prior to birth. Though there are always ongoing trials in life, these pre-enlightenment 'trials and tribulations' are nothing like that ever faced by mortals whose present understanding of what and who they are is still so nebulous that further reincarnations are necessary for them to gain more experience and understanding, and are sufficiently severe to test the spiritual faith and mortal sanity of the most advanced disciple to the very limits,...nay perhaps beyond the limits!

Great points, each, Ben, as well as your other comments that are not shown. Although your point about transcendence is understood, one hopes that at some future time in another thread (not wanting to derail this one) you will join me in discussing the use of the expression 'shift in identity.' Such discussion probably would be conducted most appropriately in the Mysticism forum. In the meantime, a review of The History of Mysticism which is fraught with language about the identity realization will be used to surface some wording for your reaction. It might be just that wording from the 'transcendent' would never use this expression while wording from the 'temporal expression' to other 'temporal expression' does.

Best Wishes,
a..1

Yes a..1, sure, am willing to join a discussion involving the concept of 'identity shift' in whatever context it is expressed. BTW, this is one that my present understanding resonates with, but the beat goes on!

I thought of You so often
I finally became You
Little by little You drew nearer
Slowly but slowly I passed away

Rumi

 

[Buttons*]

.... not if you drop the cherry

 

[hindupridemn]

Anything that can be attained without lifetimes of hard work is not enlightenment

 

[zenzero]

Friend hindupridemn,

Anything that can be attained without lifetimes of hard work is not enlightenment

What is a life time?
Life is timeless then who is creating this time?

Love & rgds

 

[YmirGF]

Anything that can be attained without lifetimes of hard work is not enlightenment

I suppose... but what if this is THE lifetime you can do it?

 

[Twilight Hue]

If this interests you, Japanese Buddhism has been searching for the ways to more rapid, more universal, if not instantaneous enlightenment for millennia.

Enlightenment does not come about spontaneously like some whacked out drug trip or akin to searching for the Holy Grail. It takes a lot of work and discipline in order to come across realisations. Although when your fanny for the first time hits the cushion, there is enlightenment.