Is It Really all about God????

[Bird123]

Seems the view of God is that God needs to be believed in and worshiped. People memorize Holy Books and go to church services for worship in order to please God. Is it really all about God and God's needs?

People fear death. People want all their problems solved for them. People want to have it made. Could this be the reason so many believe and worship? I know everyone has heard have you been Saved. Do people think they need to be saved from death and the challenges in life?

Seems in this picture everyone is out for themselves. God needs adoration and beliefs. People need saving. Does all this seem like true reality to you? Is this Intelligent?

Let's look at God logically. For a Being even capable of creating all us and the universe, He would have to be very very smart. We would be like mere ants mentally in comparison. Does it make sense that God needs worship and beliefs from His ants? That does not add up for me. Further, if God created emotions for people, does it make sense that God would be so emotionally wounded that God would require adoration?

Let's clean the slate on all we have learned and been taught about God. Let's say God is nothing but Unconditional Love. After all, isn't that the only real intelligent way to be? Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. As I see it, that is what is happening today as we speak. Everyone is free to choose without God intimidating. The causal nature of the universe returns the results of our choices so we might learn if our choices were good ones.

Isn't God educating us all through our free choices and the parameters of life we are placed in? As I see it, we are all Living our lessons. Isn't this education at it's best? With this in mind, one could never learn it all in one mere lifetime. One must have many lifetimes to be able to advance through intelligence to a High Level. Suddenly, death is no longer a problem for it would be no more than a Change.

In conclusion, as I see it, God is Unconditional Love. It has never been about God. It is about US. Unconditional Love would want us all, God's children, to learn and acquire Great Wisdom. As I see it, That is Reality.

What do you think??
What is your Reality?

 

[David T]

Obviously. He created all this so he could pop in be a rock star slide behind the curtain only to pop out as a new rock star. Rock star here is an analogy term it isn't literally genre specific. Although this is something hotly debated.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Its not something that can be discussed in public. After all its a sacred topic. Anyway you can't really discuss God directly, or you are not discussing God. Its sort of like the Tao thing, where the Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao. You can only discuss God's perceived attributes that you deduce from principles of nature, never God directly. You also cannot prove God's existence. Many have tried.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Seems the view of God is that God needs to be believed in and worshiped. People memorize Holy Books and go to church services for worship in order to please God. Is it really all about God and God's needs?

People fear death. People want all their problems solved for them. People want to have it made. Could this be the reason so many believe and worship? I know everyone has heard have you been Saved. Do people think they need to be saved from death and the challenges in life?

Seems in this picture everyone is out for themselves. God needs adoration and beliefs. People need saving. Does all this seem like true reality to you? Is this Intelligent?

Let's look at God logically. For a Being even capable of creating all us and the universe, He would have to be very very smart. We would be like mere ants mentally in comparison. Does it make sense that God needs worship and beliefs from His ants? That does not add up for me. Further, if God created emotions for people, does it make sense that God would be so emotionally wounded that God would require adoration?

Let's clean the slate on all we have learned and been taught about God. Let's say God is nothing but Unconditional Love. After all, isn't that the only real intelligent way to be? Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. As I see it, that is what is happening today as we speak. Everyone is free to choose without God intimidating. The causal nature of the universe returns the results of our choices so we might learn if our choices were good ones.

Isn't God educating us all through our free choices and the parameters of life we are placed in? As I see it, we are all Living our lessons. Isn't this education at it's best? With this in mind, one could never learn it all in one mere lifetime. One must have many lifetimes to be able to advance through intelligence to a High Level. Suddenly, death is no longer a problem for it would be no more than a Change.

In conclusion, as I see it, God is Unconditional Love. It has never been about God. It is about US. Unconditional Love would want us all, God's children, to learn and acquire Great Wisdom. As I see it, That is Reality.

What do you think??
What is your Reality?

If god Is unconditional love, why call it god?

I wasn't taught anything about god. I studied and came up with my own conclusions based on study and experience. No one said I was wrong or misguided. The general consensus among Catholics her is that it's a private relationship with god an however one finds that relationship whether through the saints or directly to christ himself is the choice of the believer.

My?? Reality.. Reality itself has no god/entity. Each of us are spirits and god has no body so how can he be a spirit and of whom. We are supported by those who come before us and today. One day we will do the same for others. Reality says our environment takes care of us. I haven't found a specific god in reality. If you gave me five books with the word god in it and its attributes, which one should I be reading and why?

 

[Skwim]

Seems the view of God is that God needs to be believed in and worshiped. People memorize Holy Books and go to church services for worship in order to please God. Is it really all about God and God's needs?

People fear death. People want all their problems solved for them. People want to have it made. Could this be the reason so many believe and worship? I know everyone has heard have you been Saved. Do people think they need to be saved from death and the challenges in life?

Seems in this picture everyone is out for themselves. God needs adoration and beliefs. People need saving. Does all this seem like true reality to you? Is this Intelligent?

Let's look at God logically. For a Being even capable of creating all us and the universe, He would have to be very very smart. We would be like mere ants mentally in comparison. Does it make sense that God needs worship and beliefs from His ants? That does not add up for me. Further, if God created emotions for people, does it make sense that God would be so emotionally wounded that God would require adoration?

Excellent post up to this point. All rational observations.

Let's clean the slate on all we have learned and been taught about God. Let's say God is nothing but Unconditional Love. After all, isn't that the only real intelligent way to be?

No. If one is disposed to construct a god consistent with the human condition I fail to see how a god of unconditional love could work.

Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. As I see it, that is what is happening today as we speak.

Assuming this god is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent one has to account for all the pain and suffering that's been allowed to persist. And I don't see unconditional love being compatible with them.

Everyone is free to choose without God intimidating. The causal nature of the universe returns the results of our choices so we might learn if our choices were good ones.

Isn't God educating us all through our free choices and the parameters of life we are placed in? As I see it, we are all Living our lessons. Isn't this education at it's best? With this in mind, one could never learn it all in one mere lifetime. One must have many lifetimes to be able to advance through intelligence to a High Level. Suddenly, death is no longer a problem for it would be no more than a Change.

Being a hard determinists, I have to disagree. Your statement has no relevance.

In conclusion, as I see it, God is Unconditional Love. It has never been about God. It is about US. Unconditional Love would want us all, God's children, to learn and acquire Great Wisdom. As I see it, That is Reality.

What do you think??

I think you're fooling yourself---undoubtedly unaware of it.

What is your Reality?

One which recognizes the folly of the self delusion you have concocted for yourself, and looks on reality as most likely lacking any divine component. I don't find any need for a god and therefore see no reason to imagine one. What you see is all there is.


.


.

 

[buddhist]

Seems the view of God is that God needs to be believed in and worshiped. People memorize Holy Books and go to church services for worship in order to please God. Is it really all about God and God's needs?

People fear death. People want all their problems solved for them. People want to have it made. Could this be the reason so many believe and worship? I know everyone has heard have you been Saved. Do people think they need to be saved from death and the challenges in life?

Seems in this picture everyone is out for themselves. God needs adoration and beliefs. People need saving. Does all this seem like true reality to you? Is this Intelligent?

Let's look at God logically. For a Being even capable of creating all us and the universe, He would have to be very very smart. We would be like mere ants mentally in comparison. Does it make sense that God needs worship and beliefs from His ants? That does not add up for me. Further, if God created emotions for people, does it make sense that God would be so emotionally wounded that God would require adoration?

Let's clean the slate on all we have learned and been taught about God. Let's say God is nothing but Unconditional Love. After all, isn't that the only real intelligent way to be? Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. As I see it, that is what is happening today as we speak. Everyone is free to choose without God intimidating. The causal nature of the universe returns the results of our choices so we might learn if our choices were good ones.

Isn't God educating us all through our free choices and the parameters of life we are placed in? As I see it, we are all Living our lessons. Isn't this education at it's best? With this in mind, one could never learn it all in one mere lifetime. One must have many lifetimes to be able to advance through intelligence to a High Level. Suddenly, death is no longer a problem for it would be no more than a Change.

In conclusion, as I see it, God is Unconditional Love. It has never been about God. It is about US. Unconditional Love would want us all, God's children, to learn and acquire Great Wisdom. As I see it, That is Reality.

What do you think??
What is your Reality?

"God" is only a secondary issue. It is only one consequence of man's search for relief from dukkha.

 

[Bird123]

If god Is unconditional love, why call it god?

I wasn't taught anything about god. I studied and came up with my own conclusions based on study and experience. No one said I was wrong or misguided. The general consensus among Catholics her is that it's a private relationship with god an however one finds that relationship whether through the saints or directly to christ himself is the choice of the believer.

My?? Reality.. Reality itself has no god/entity. Each of us are spirits and god has no body so how can he be a spirit and of whom. We are supported by those who come before us and today. One day we will do the same for others. Reality says our environment takes care of us. I haven't found a specific god in reality. If you gave me five books with the word god in it and its attributes, which one should I be reading and why?

Perhaps, instead of saying God is Unconditional Love, I should have said God acts with Unconditional Love simply because that is the most intelligent way to act. Is it not?

Your comment that reality has no God must be based on you not having discovered God. Simply because you have not Discovered God does not mean God does not exist in reality. I'm sure there are many things in reality that many are not aware of.

 

[Bird123]

Its not something that can be discussed in public. After all its a sacred topic. Anyway you can't really discuss God directly, or you are not discussing God. Its sort of like the Tao thing, where the Tao that can be spoken is not the true Tao. You can only discuss God's perceived attributes that you deduce from principles of nature, never God directly. You also cannot prove God's existence. Many have tried.

Limits, Limits, Limits. Saying what one can and can not do restricts so much. It is not up to anyone to prove God exists for you. On the other hand, we are all capable of Discovery. Of course, that is if one is looking to Discover something.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

We have some issues here (of course )

Perhaps, instead of saying God is Unconditional Love, I should have said God acts with Unconditional Love simply because that is the most intelligent way to act. Is it not?

I don't understand this statement "god acts with unconditional love." God is not a part of reality. He isn't a person. He can't display human emotions which unconditional love is one of them. Since he is not a person, and spirits are people, who is he a spirit of? What is a god?

Your comment that reality has no God must be based on you not having discovered God. Simply because you have not Discovered God does not mean God does not exist in reality. I'm sure there are many things in reality that many are not aware of.

This is an assumption. I know god does not exist. Experience, study, and knowledge explains just as much as how we define the supernatural as how we interpret the natural and why, on earth, we separate the two as if they have different importance and different sources.

Going by your logic, though, Vishnu can exist and since you are not aware of it, you may not be aware that you are (can't remember if you're christian) worshiping the wrong god.

Also, going by that logic, everyone who knows god exist is lying. They are not aware that there are other gods that can either disprove their present god's existence or offer better things than the god they believe in offers.

 

[Bird123]

Excellent post up to this point. All rational observations.

No. If one is disposed to construct a god consistent with the human condition I fail to see how a god of unconditional love could work.


Assuming this god is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, one has to account for all the pain and suffering that's been allowed to persist. And I don't see unconditional love being compatible with them.


Being a hard determinists, I have to disagree. Your statement has no relevance.


I think you're fooling yourself---undoubtedly unaware of it.

One which recognizes the folly of the self delusion you have concocted for yourself, and looks on reality as most likely lacking any divine component. I don't find any need for a god and therefore see no reason to imagine one. What you see is all there is.


.


.

Is the goal of life to stop all pain and suffering? That might be the goal of mankind, but what is learned when there are no challenges? Further, if one chooses to cause pain and suffering in the world, must not one receive pain and suffering in order understand the original choice. Yes, I can see this as Unconditional Love especially when the final result is understanding that causing pain and suffering to others is not a good choice.

 

[Bird123]

"God" is only a secondary issue. It is only one consequence of man's search for relief from dukkha.

Sometimes the roughest roads will end up with the best view. Should man's goal really be relief from dukkha?

 

[Bird123]

We have some issues here (of course )


I don't understand this statement "god acts with unconditional love." God is not a part of reality. He isn't a person. He can't display human emotions which unconditional love is one of them. Since he is not a person, and spirits are people, who is he a spirit of? What is a god?



This is an assumption. I know god does not exist. Experience, study, and knowledge explains just as much as how we define the supernatural as how we interpret the natural and why, on earth, we separate the two as if they have different importance and different sources.

Going by your logic, though, Vishnu can exist and since you are not aware of it, you may not be aware that you are (can't remember if you're christian) worshiping the wrong god.

Also, going by that logic, everyone who knows god exist is lying. They are not aware that there are other gods that can either disprove their present god's existence or offer better things than the god they believe in offers.

Logic: Regardless of any beliefs. If God exists, then God can be found and not as a Belief.

So many times, one limits themselves with assumptions and beliefs something is impossible or can not be done.

Aren't we all limiting based on nothing more than a narrow view? How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? It was staring us in the face, yet we were so blind to what actually was.

Look closer. What else are we missing?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The problem is just because there is a claim "X exists" does not make it true or not true or worthy of expection unless it gets millions of people killed in the process, develops a huge political system off of beliefs presented as facts, and involves people's lives and their morals, all of this, while important, does not make it any more true than saying Powder Puff Girls exist. At least the latter, it doesn't cause a boat load of bloody history. Nichiren Buddhism, on the other hand, has caused a lot of political indoctrination and money issues. Of course Muslims have their problems. And Christians theirs. So,...

Logic: Regardless of any beliefs. If God exists, then God can be found and not as a Belief.

There is no IF in logic. Logically two and two is four. IF two and two is five (it's a hypothetical question; theory), then the mathematics would be changed for ever! Doom boom boom! but since logical and by evidence it equals four, we can conclude it is not a belief that cannot be proven (like many religions) but a fact that can be proven just by using two objects on either hand and putting them together to double.

You always have to use IF with god because god cannot be proven as a fact. It's a claim that people take personally, applied it to their lives traditions, written and oral words, and so forth; so, to part with it, well, would be hard. But I can't say "because two and two is five, we can conclude that five and five will be eight." Logic doesn't work that way... well, laws of mathematics.

So many times, one limits themselves with assumptions and beliefs something is impossible or can not be done.

It is not that. It's, do the things that are impossible to prove such as assumptions and beliefs that a god/entity exists (or not) will benefit that person's life. We don't live very long. I assume when we get to a certain age, we kind of figure what is good for our well-being and what we know will take a life time of wasted effort to find when we can be doing something else that has more meaning to our lives instead.

Not everyone wants to solve for X.

Aren't we all limiting based on nothing more than a narrow view? How long did mankind watch birds fly before they figured out how? It was staring us in the face, yet we were so blind to what actually was.

I don't see life as limiting. If I did, I would be dead. Seriously not a joke. I don't understand how we can see life at such a narrow view or even be comfortable in our narrow view of "inherited sin". It's not just christians. It's like the older we get, the more we are convincing ourselves we have inherited sin (however named). Thank god not all cultures think that way.

Look closer. What else are we missing?

Why do you think you're missing anything?

Have you not gotten to that point of "oh, this is it..." gone through the grieving process and entered acceptance? I can't remember the order it goes in but everyone seems to go through it. When I talk to people, I can tell what stage they are in and it's not just age. Some people are Ol' Souls.

 

[buddhist]

Sometimes the roughest roads will end up with the best view. Should man's goal really be relief from dukkha?

Should it be? I don't know.

Is it man's goal? Undeniably so.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Seems the view of God is that God needs to be believed in and worshiped. People memorize Holy Books and go to church services for worship in order to please God. Is it really all about God and God's needs?

People fear death. People want all their problems solved for them. People want to have it made. Could this be the reason so many believe and worship? I know everyone has heard have you been Saved. Do people think they need to be saved from death and the challenges in life?

Seems in this picture everyone is out for themselves. God needs adoration and beliefs. People need saving. Does all this seem like true reality to you? Is this Intelligent?

Let's look at God logically. For a Being even capable of creating all us and the universe, He would have to be very very smart. We would be like mere ants mentally in comparison. Does it make sense that God needs worship and beliefs from His ants? That does not add up for me. Further, if God created emotions for people, does it make sense that God would be so emotionally wounded that God would require adoration?

Let's clean the slate on all we have learned and been taught about God. Let's say God is nothing but Unconditional Love. After all, isn't that the only real intelligent way to be? Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other. As I see it, that is what is happening today as we speak. Everyone is free to choose without God intimidating. The causal nature of the universe returns the results of our choices so we might learn if our choices were good ones.

Isn't God educating us all through our free choices and the parameters of life we are placed in? As I see it, we are all Living our lessons. Isn't this education at it's best? With this in mind, one could never learn it all in one mere lifetime. One must have many lifetimes to be able to advance through intelligence to a High Level. Suddenly, death is no longer a problem for it would be no more than a Change.

In conclusion, as I see it, God is Unconditional Love. It has never been about God. It is about US. Unconditional Love would want us all, God's children, to learn and acquire Great Wisdom. As I see it, That is Reality.

What do you think??
What is your Reality?

Love is unconditional.
Respect is earned.

Some do not fear death, they long for it as an end to their suffering.
This is why many reject God: they then justify cheating and stealing and grabbing for themselves;
thinking that after they die there will be no accounting for it.

 

[Skwim]

Is the goal of life to stop all pain and suffering? That might be the goal of mankind,

I don't see any goal of life or mankind other than on a personal level where one seeks to live as well and as long as one can.

but what is learned when there are no challenges?

How about all those things learned that aren't the result of challenges. What's wrong with them?

Further, if one chooses to cause pain and suffering in the world, must not one receive pain and suffering in order understand the original choice.

As I said, I'm a hard determinist, someone who doesn't believe in free will or choice. Other than that, I fail to understand the thrust of your question. Just what is this "original choice" you say we should understand? And why should we understand it?

Yes, I can see this as Unconditional Love especially when the final result is understanding that causing pain and suffering to others is not a good choice.

So understanding that causing pain and suffering to others is not a good choice shows that god is "nothing but Unconditional Love"? Forgive me for failing to see how the one follows the other.


.

 

[Bird123]

The problem is just because there is a claim "X exists" does not make it true or not true or worthy of expection unless it gets millions of people killed in the process, develops a huge political system off of beliefs presented as facts, and involves people's lives and their morals, all of this, while important, does not make it any more true than saying Powder Puff Girls exist. At least the latter, it doesn't cause a boat load of bloody history. Nichiren Buddhism, on the other hand, has caused a lot of political indoctrination and money issues. Of course Muslims have their problems. And Christians theirs. So,...

There is no IF in logic. Logically two and two is four. IF two and two is five (it's a hypothetical question; theory), then the mathematics would be changed for ever! Doom boom boom! but since logical and by evidence it equals four, we can conclude it is not a belief that cannot be proven (like many religions) but a fact that can be proven just by using two objects on either hand and putting them together to double.

You always have to use IF with god because god cannot be proven as a fact. It's a claim that people take personally, applied it to their lives traditions, written and oral words, and so forth; so, to part with it, well, would be hard. But I can't say "because two and two is five, we can conclude that five and five will be eight." Logic doesn't work that way... well, laws of mathematics.



It is not that. It's, do the things that are impossible to prove such as assumptions and beliefs that a god/entity exists (or not) will benefit that person's life. We don't live very long. I assume when we get to a certain age, we kind of figure what is good for our well-being and what we know will take a life time of wasted effort to find when we can be doing something else that has more meaning to our lives instead.

Not everyone wants to solve for X.



I don't see life as limiting. If I did, I would be dead. Seriously not a joke. I don't understand how we can see life at such a narrow view or even be comfortable in our narrow view of "inherited sin". It's not just christians. It's like the older we get, the more we are convincing ourselves we have inherited sin (however named). Thank god not all cultures think that way.



Why do you think you're missing anything?

Have you not gotten to that point of "oh, this is it..." gone through the grieving process and entered acceptance? I can't remember the order it goes in but everyone seems to go through it. When I talk to people, I can tell what stage they are in and it's not just age. Some people are Ol' Souls.

As long as there is knowledge to be acquired, I am missing that knowledge. Should a student give up that search for knowledge simply because it is hard to Discover? A Hungry student won't. I am that Hungry student.

Should life be a grieving or accepting process? Isn't there always a way to move forward? It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. It's not what you can't do that's important. It's what you can. You might be surprised on the ability of a person to work around can't and be able to accomplish that goal.

Religion is a catalyst which brings so many people's problems to the surface so they can be dealt with. Religion has done that in the past. Mankind has learned and grown from this and will continue to grow. People try so hard to avoid drama, however isn't more learned around drama than anything else? And sure people die, but isn't death no more than a Change?

People can find a million reasons not to do something. That's ok. As I see it, free choice is an important part of what this world is all about. It does not matter whether people go find God or even want to find God or even believe. Choose and Believe what ever you want. It doesn't really matter. As I see it, Everybody already knows God and will realize that when you are together again.

 

[Bird123]

Love is unconditional.
Respect is earned.

Some do not fear death, they long for it as an end to their suffering.
This is why many reject God: they then justify cheating and stealing and grabbing for themselves;
thinking that after they die there will be no accounting for it.

Some do choose hard lessons for themselves. Still, once one sees all sides, intelligence will make the right choices. I see that as part of what it's all about.

When one truly understands, evil will no longer be a viable choice. For those of us who watch others learning the lessons we already understand, perhaps it is a reminder of what the true answers really are. As I see it, there is no need to hold onto the petty things such as Hate, Judging and Condemning for each at some point in eternity has chosen hard lessons for themselves.

 

[Bird123]

I don't see any goal of life or mankind other than on a personal level where one seeks to live as well and as long as one can.


How about all those things learned that aren't the result of challenges. What's wrong with them?


As I said, I'm a hard determinist, someone who doesn't believe in free will or choice. Other than that, I fail to understand the thrust of your question. Just what is this "original choice" you say we should understand? And why should we understand it?

So understanding that causing pain and suffering to others is not a good choice shows that god is "nothing but Unconditional Love"? Forgive me for failing to see how the one follows the other.


.

If you choose to cause others pain and suffering, you need to understand this original choice otherwise you could never learn that this was a bad choice.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As long as there is knowledge to be acquired, I am missing that knowledge. Should a student give up that search for knowledge simply because it is hard to Discover? A Hungry student won't. I am that Hungry student.

Depends on how much you want to learn. I've always wanted to learn all the languages/cultures of the world when I was young. I studied languages but because of medical reasons, my focus was on health. Then I got older and realized within each country has more than on language, and in each area, more than one dialect. I mean, I can't even understand New York accent and they are in the same country as I am in Virginia.

I can't learn everything no matter how much my mind wants to and likewise with religion. Maybe your passion and calling in life is "to search." I've been in college so far most my life and if I got paid for it, I'd stay in college. I love to learn but I understand the difference between learning and earning a pay check and being happy with the process compared to getting a degree and gaining retirement which focus on the destination. We don't know when we will die so live each day as if it were a journey not a destination.

Should life be a grieving or accepting process? Isn't there always a way to move forward? It doesn't matter what everyone else does. It's what you choose to do that counts. It's not what you can't do that's important. It's what you can. You might be surprised on the ability of a person to work around can't and be able to accomplish that goal.

Life is a grieving process. How you want to see it is up to the individual. I told my therapist it seemed like I keep going in circles not getting anywhere. He says instead of seeing it in cirlces, which they are, we everyone is going in a circle, we are expanding, which we are. So we are never in the same space twice. I most likely be wearing pampers in the next fifty years of my life just as I did as an infant but I have wisdom that an infant didn't have. On the other hand, I notice people I live with in their upper 80s are stuck in their ways where children are open to new ideas. So, keep that thirst for knowledge but don't let bias and ego get the best of you. Go into other people's shoes too. Not everything can be learned from books and, well, internet.

Religion is a catalyst which brings so many people's problems to the surface so they can be dealt with. Religion has done that in the past. Mankind has learned and grown from this and will continue to grow. People try so hard to avoid drama, however isn't more learned around drama than anything else? And sure people die, but isn't death no more than a Change?

In my belief, I side with Buddhist that death is about change. We are in a cycle of birth and death and death is just a chance from one form to another. Whatever special extras we'd like to add to help our journey depends on the individual's beliefs. It doesn't mean you can't keep learning, just saying there is a difference between learning to know something new versus learning to know it all. We don't have to learn everything. But if that goal helps you out, nothing wrong with that. I just don't have energy for it.

People can find a million reasons not to do something. That's ok. As I see it, free choice is an important part of what this world is all about. It does not matter whether people go find God or even want to find God or even believe. Choose and Believe what ever you want. It doesn't really matter. As I see it, Everybody already knows God and will realize that when you are together again.

That's the issue. A lot of us didn't choose to believe or disbelief. That's like saying I choose to love my mother when maternal love from an infant is natural just as one's observation of the world and how he or she interprets the world around him.

People have value for not looking for god just as people who do. Knowing and believing in god doesn't make someone have value and they don't loose their value in themselves because they haven't found the christian god. That doesn't make sense. Logically, yes, the christian god would loose out on someone but from that person's perspective, he lost nothing. If god and christians can't understand that, I dont know what to say.