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Is it possible ?
- Thread starter chinu
- Start date
Sure. Sainthood is demonstrably real. Religious teachings, and therefore teachers, too.
By contrast, as beliefs go, God is strictly optional.
By contrast, as beliefs go, God is strictly optional.
chinu
chinu
Why can't we say it as False Sainthood ?
Sumit
Sanatana Dharma
Yes, there are many, I know some of them.Is it possible for someone to believe in any Saint/Guru/Messiah/Messanger or whatever etc.. But not God ?
chinu
chinu
We can. And sometimes we must. Ultimately it falls upon us all to exercise discernment and judge the merits of Saints.
chinu
chinu
What is your defination for "Saint" ?
Someone of remarkable spiritual purity, virtue and/or wisdom.
chinu
chinu
And how do you define "Spiritual" ?
Honestly, it depends on how one is defining those terms. If a "messenger" for example is defined specifically in the context of being a messenger of the gods, then clearly one needs to accept the reality of gods in order to believe anyone/anything can be one of their messengers.
Pretty much the same as you do, I suspect, except that I see no mark of a higher purpose or creator behind it.
It has to do with a certain kind of motivation, empathy, and moral values.
chinu
chinu
So, its not possible.
Yes... if the message's worth relies on the messenger correct about the origin of his message.
And even that is assuming that the messenger himself believes in a divine origin for the message.
Stranger things have happened. Haile Selassie was actually declared divine regardless of his own thoughts on the matter, for instance.
Haile Selassie I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So, its not possible.
From a certain point of view, yes. From other points of view, it's very possible.
Ah, I was speaking more from the standpoint of the messenger themselves, not the people listening. If you do not accept that gods are real (and that they can communicate effectively with people; that's another background assumption in there), you will not perceive that they are speaking to you. What outsiders read into what you say or do not say is up to their own perceptions. How the "worth" of the message it is evaluated is also a separate issue, I think, that goes beyond the intended scope of this thread.
So it seems that you and I understood the intent of this thread differently, Quintessence.
Probably. Direct communication/experience of the gods is a norm in contemporary Paganism, so for better or worse I tend to come at things from that angle. It's so much the norm to work directly with your gods that most of the terms in the OP don't have much place in Neopaganism. All the terms in the OP are intermediaries, and Neopaganism rarely makes use of such intermediaries. There are teachers and traditions, but they don't hold the same role that they do in revealed religions.
That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the rather accurate and to the point analysis.
nameless
The Creator
Is it possible for someone to believe in any Saint/Guru/Messiah/Messanger or whatever etc.. But not God ?
in my opinion, to believe in guru/saint the student should disbelieve in god.
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
Is it possible for someone to believe in any Saint/Guru/Messiah/Messanger or whatever etc.. But not God ?
Saint? Perhaps, but unlikely.
Guru? Certainly.
Messiah? Not likely.
Messenger? Of whom?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
in my opinion, to believe in guru/saint the student should disbelieve in god.
^ This. Although that being said it in no way answers the OP question