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Is it possible?

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Reaching the most logical conclusion is rational.

Kilgore, I should have said that atman is what one is -- by definition. I wish to know why you equate having 'truth as the desire and resolve' to death?

...
 
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atanu

Member
Premium Member
Waveform, and we are particulate; but what we can do is align and resonate... just as the tao upon which we trod is not the eternal tao, our resonations can progressively approach but not achieve waveform. Truth, it seems, brings a lessening of differentiation; but to become true is to essentially unbecome.

Are we really particulate at all times?

...
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Dear YmirGF and doppelgänger

Both of your posts are extremely valuable to me.

It seems to me that both of you are correct and yet are speaking from two perspectives. For example, YmirGF seems to hold the inner being as true. Whereas, doppelgänger is talking about the realm of no fragments. Both of you however, agree that the statement 'whose desire is of the truth ..' is inappropriate.

My feeling is that we must take into account the Self/self at different levels: a) distinctionless/devoid of any fragments (without a reflecting mind), b) as both subject and object (when with mind), and c) as an object that is unaware of it being the subject (all beings).

Any comments?

...
 

Onkara

Well-Known Member
Thanks. The red was my mistake in a way -- wrong words.

...

I know you know. :) My reply is for the forum too. It is words which we are playing with like a kitten chases a ball of wool knowing it is not the real mouse.
 
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Ben Dhyan

Veteran Member
...Atman...

Do you agree that such an entity is truth? If not why? If yes, then why?

Do you agree that such an attainement is possible? If not why? If yes, then how?

...

1. Yes, since my understanding is that Atman is One and the same as Absolute Reality/Absolute Truth.

2. Yes, by absolute realization of what and who one really is.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Without codifying another religion, yes. ;)

But all religions are to be codified externally only. But one's realisation is not external.

'I am' sense is subtle and so is 'I am this' sense. Only when the 'I am this' is experienced through touch sense as localised, a sense of particulate nature arises. This experience is only apparent in waking state. In dream, one is subtle and both the subject and object. In deep sleep one is devoid of subject and object. From within dream one is not gross physical body. From within dreamless sleep one is not particulate.

When the waking state form was not true before birth and will not be true after death, is the perception of this state all that there is?

...
 
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chinu

chinu
I cannot imagine that some compare god to merchandise and trader (bania in Hindi)? :D...

On this i remembred one of the famous Quote by Paltu Sahib # in GGS. :)

Quote: "He is a true bania (trader) who weighs his own mind, Within the mind is the market and in the mind itself is the customer, Within the mind is the shop and the mind itself is the shopkeeper, therein is the provision for the mind, Within the mind, search and find the Truth and go not outside, It is the produce of the mind which the mind itself consumes, Within the mind are the beam-scales and therein are the weights and measures, Sayeth Paltu, all this is nothing but a play of the mind." - Paltu bani guru granth Sahib.


_/\_
Chinu
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Perhaps, but certainly not free from change.

This is not exactly true. It can feel sorrow if it wishes, but it is also sinister in the respect that it implies sorrow is bad. Sorrow, like the atman, is part of what makes us human.

:)

By scriptural definition, Atman is free of change and sorrow. Possibly, the verse and the opinion here pertain to different things?:)

...
 

ellenjanuary

Well-Known Member
When the waking state form was not true before birth and will not be true after death...
Thus the perceptual difficulties in complexity of concept; "true" and "life."

Say we kicked it the city for the night, living it up and parting down; hop in my stretch Lamborghini with thirty-seven Gwyneth Paltrow look-alikes and the case of Cristal for a night of debauchery at my place in the mountains...

Suppose you woke up, kinda; on the sofa, looking across the room at the open front door...

Would you not be wrapped up in the blanket, halfway down the path; wondering what that fool ellen is doing out there first thing in the morning...

Wondering where all the Gwynnies went, wondering who is going to make the coffee; even before you thought to wonder if you even had a name?

In the act of living, the act of being true occurs before the word; truth. In the thought of living, the philosophy of truth cannot be fulfilled with all the words. The paradox arises as a function of that tiny little gap - after birth/ before death - because of you. Everything else is just god; and when we get there, there won't be anything to say.

So, of course, it is possible. The words that the "you" learns is the something that the "i" remembers; but there's a catch -

:D

You learn I; long before coming aware of being I, and knowing you. So, of course it's not possible.

:biglaugh:

...is the perception of this state all that there is?
Now. ;)
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
By scriptural definition, Atman is free of change and sorrow. Possibly, the verse and the opinion here pertain to different things?:)

...
No, I am quite insistent on this point, those who say Atman/soul does not change don't know what they are talking about. Atman is sort of like a spinning top. Due to the spin the colour appears to be uniform, in the same way, Atman only appears to be changeless due to the limitations of human perception. It changes so fast, that it is all a blur and seems therefore to be changeless. Obviously I don't particularly care what so-called "scripture", or anyone else, have to say to the contrary.
 
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