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Is it permitted to beat women per Quran? (challenge for one on one debate with anyone)

stanberger

Active Member
islam allows divorce so anything ore than a swat on the rump can lead to divorce ' an abused wife in christianity cannot divorce per bible so must stay in abusive marriage
 

stanberger

Active Member
Withholding intercourse from a woman because she was not “obedient” is cruel. (That is what I understand you are saying.)
This is in stark contrast to Judaism where a husband is obligated in the mitzva (commandment) of onah (fulfilling his wife as she desires). Women have no such commandment.

Also, is this your interpretation or is there a general consensus that this is the correct interpretation?
Because if the beating interpretation is given any validity in Islam, does it really matter how you personally interpret it? (And like I said, your interpretation is not very nice either.)[/in bible a raped woman must marry her rapist QUOTE]
in bible a woman who is raped must marry her rapist
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
islam allows divorce so anything ore than a swat on the rump can lead to divorce ' an abused wife in christianity cannot divorce per bible so must stay in abusive marriage
Why do you keep resorting to whataboutery? It that your only defence of Islam?

"Yeah Islam allows slavery, torture, domestic violence, using captives for sex, etc - but so does the Bible, so it's all good man."

Does it not worry you that your perfect religion, your moral superiority is universally condemned as illegal and abhorrent by international law and civilised society? Surely you are better than that?
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
BTW, why do you keep replying to people's posts but not saying anything?
Is it a weird passive/aggressive thing?
 

stanberger

Active Member
Why do you keep resorting to whataboutery? It that your only defence of Islam?

"Yeah Islam allows slavery, torture, domestic violence, using captives for sex, etc - but so does the Bible, so it's all good man."

Does it not worry you that your perfect religion, your moral superiority is universally condemned as illegal and abhorrent by international law and civilised society? Surely you are better than that?
if the ancient folks could see the western values today men marrying men mothers killing 55 million babies in u s since roe v wade. baby daddies and baby mamas. kids transgendering ..church clergy raping 11 yr old altar boys. .and old men wanting the right to follow little girls into public restrooms they would think you to be barbaric sadists different eras....oy vey
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
if the ancient folks could see the western values today
I see you are still unable to defend your own beliefs and instead have to attack those of others. This is called "whataboutery" and is the sign of an untenable position.
Come on! You are a convert. You should be certain in your beliefs. Instead you seem concerned only with deflection. Try addressing the actual criticisms of Islam (although I fully understand if you can't. Most apologists have trouble with it)

men marrying men
You keep repeating this, but you still haven't explained why homosexual marriage is "barbaric".

mothers killing 55 million babies in u s since roe v wade.
Abortion does not involve "killing babies". It is the termination of an early-stage foetus. Whilst it is usually undesirable, it is often necessary. Forcing a woman to bear an unwanted foetus until birth against her will, and then discarding the child to the care system is more barbaric.

baby daddies and baby mamas.
No idea what that means.

kids transgendering ..
Again, what is the problem?

church clergy raping 11 yr old altar boys.
You do realise that it is illegal and abhorrent to society. There are harsh penalties and public condemnation of it, so not sure what your point is.

and old men wanting the right to follow little girls into public restrooms
Again, no idea what your point is here.
However, you seem unaware that you best prophet and Allah's final messenger, Muhammad, your ultimate role model, married a six year old girl and had sex with her when she was 9.

they would think you to be barbaric sadists
Actually, they probably wouldn't. Perhaps you don't understand what "barbaric" or "sadistic" mean?

different eras
My point was about what the Quran permits and promotes. The Quran is infallible and immutable, the final guide for all mankind. You can't use the "different eras" argument for anything Allah said or Muhammad did.

Interesting sign off. Are you Jewish?
 

stanberger

Active Member
I see you are still unable to defend your own beliefs and instead have to attack those of others. This is called "whataboutery" and is the sign of an untenable position.
Come on! You are a convert. You should be certain in your beliefs. Instead you seem concerned only with deflection. Try addressing the actual criticisms of Islam (although I fully understand if you can't. Most apologists have trouble with it)

You keep repeating this, but you still haven't explained why homosexual marriage is "barbaric".

Abortion does not involve "killing babies". It is the termination of an early-stage foetus. Whilst it is usually undesirable, it is often necessary. Forcing a woman to bear an unwanted foetus until birth against her will, and then discarding the child to the care system is more barbaric.

No idea what that means.

Again, what is the problem?

You do realise that it is illegal and abhorrent to society. There are harsh penalties and public condemnation of it, so not sure what your point is.

Again, no idea what your point is here.
However, you seem unaware that you best prophet and Allah's final messenger, Muhammad, your ultimate role model, married a six year old girl and had sex with her when she was 9.

Actually, they probably wouldn't. Perhaps you don't understand what "barbaric" or "sadistic" mean?

My point was about what the Quran permits and promotes. The Quran is infallible and immutable, the final guide for all mankind. You can't use the "different eras" argument for anything Allah said or Muhammad did.

Interesting sign off. Are you Jewish?
are you an antisemite ? if you are I'd rather not engage with you .....again my conversion to islam is multifold. 1 god does not murder infants in their ribs of Egypt [passover]. like god of the Bible. 2 god in quran says avoid harming babies women elderly in battle. yahweh of bible says ' go bash the heads of their babies against the rocks ' 3 god in quran can forgive sins of his creation without the blood of an innocent man on a cross [pagan god of Aztecs and incas also required blood sacrifice like god of the Bible]. 4 today the only folks staying close to word of god are muslims. avoiding gay marriage. transgender of kids. premarital sex. was murder of babies in abortions etc
 

stanberger

Active Member
are you an antisemite ? if you are I'd rather not engage with you .....again my conversion to islam is multifold. 1 god does not murder infants in their ribs of Egypt [passover]. like god of the Bible. 2 god in quran says avoid harming babies women elderly in battle. yahweh of bible says ' go bash the heads of their babies against the rocks ' 3 god in quran can forgive sins of his creation without the blood of an innocent man on a cross [pagan god of Aztecs and incas also required blood sacrifice like god of the Bible]. 4 today the only folks staying close to word of god are muslims. avoiding gay marriage. transgender of kids. premarital sex. was murder of babies in abortions etc
cribs of Egypt
 

stanberger

Active Member
are you an antisemite ? if you are I'd rather not engage with you .....again my conversion to islam is multifold. 1 god does not murder infants in their ribs of Egypt [passover]. like god of the Bible. 2 god in quran says avoid harming babies women elderly in battle. yahweh of bible says ' go bash the heads of their babies against the rocks ' 3 god in quran can forgive sins of his creation without the blood of an innocent man on a cross [pagan god of Aztecs and incas also required blood sacrifice like god of the Bible]. 4 today the only folks staying close to word of god are muslims. avoiding gay marriage. transgender of kids. premarital sex. was murder of babies in abortions etc
mass murder of babies
 
I don't understand why you would want to beat a person you love - do you think they will love you back?The woman has to live in fear of a beating her whole life what kind of life is that. If your marriage is not working let them go why would you want to keep a person and beat them into sunmission. That is one miserable marriage and puts up the idea that a man owns his woman. I beat my father for doing it to my mother - he has never hit her again because he knows what it feels like to be a victim now and sees the error of his ways and he lost his wife and sons over it. I was beaten daily as a child until I became a man and put an end to it for everyone in my family. I would never beat my wife or children I know what it feels like to be a victim of a tyrant its a horrible life with no love..
 

stanberger

Active Member
I don't understand why you would want to beat a person you love - do you think they will love you back?The woman has to live in fear of a beating her whole life what kind of life is that. If your marriage is not working let them go why would you want to keep a person and beat them into sunmission. That is one miserable marriage and puts up the idea that a man owns his woman. I beat my father for doing it to my mother - he has never hit her again because he knows what it feels like to be a victim now and sees the error of his ways and he lost his wife and sons over it. I was beaten daily as a child until I became a man and put an end to it for everyone in my family. I would never beat my wife or children I know what it feels like to be a victim of a tyrant its a horrible life with no love..
thats the great thing about islam. it allows divorce. so anything more than a swat on the rump can lead to divorce. but bible calls divorce a sin. an abused christian wife had to stay in the abusive marriage. every week on n b c dateline another story about a christian hubby killing his wife. 4k spouses murdered each yer in u s alone no other country has more
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
are you an antisemite ?
Nice try. BTW, have you read some of the stuff Allah and Muhammad had to say about Jews? Now there's a couple of anti-semites!

again my conversion to islam is multifold. 1 god does not murder infants in their ribs of Egypt [passover]. like god of the Bible.
That is a reason for not liking Christianity, not for accepting Islam.
Also, the god of the Quran has committed his share of atrocities (as did Muhammad), so not sure why you think he is squeaky clean.

2 god in quran says avoid harming babies women elderly in battle.
1. No it doesn't. (Have you actually read the Quran?
2. Muhammad permitted the killing of women and children during raids, under certain conditions.

3 god in quran can forgive sins of his creation without the blood of an innocent man on a cross [pagan god of Aztecs and incas also required blood sacrifice like god of the Bible].
Are you sure you used to be a Christian? It doesn't sound like you had quite grasped its doctrine.

4 today the only folks staying close to word of god are muslims.
Which god? The followers of every religion make the same claim that you do, with equal conviction.
You can't all be right, but you can all be wrong.

avoiding gay marriage. transgender of kids. premarital sex.
Why does all this stuff upset you so much?

Also notice that once again you ignored all the points I raised and simply railed against Christianity and gays. I'm staring to detect a pattern.
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
thats the great thing about islam. it allows divorce. so anything more than a swat on the rump can lead to divorce. but bible calls divorce a sin. an abused christian wife had to stay in the abusive marriage. every week on n b c dateline another story about a christian hubby killing his wife. 4k spouses murdered each yer in u s alone no other country has more
You really are obsessed with this caricature of Christianity. Did something happen to you?

But anyway, so you admit that the Quran instructs a husband to beat his wife if he fears ill-conduct from her, under certain conditions. And you consider this instruction to be perfect, morally good, universal and timeless?
 

stanberger

Active Member
Nice try. BTW, have you read some of the stuff Allah and Muhammad had to say about Jews? Now there's a couple of anti-semites!

That is a reason for not liking Christianity, not for accepting Islam.
Also, the god of the Quran has committed his share of atrocities (as did Muhammad), so not sure why you think he is squeaky clean.

1. No it doesn't. (Have you actually read the Quran?
2. Muhammad permitted the killing of women and children during raids, under certain conditions.never allowed it. I suggest you stay out of hate sites

Are you sure you used to be a Christian? It doesn't sound like you had quite grasped its doctrine.
are you suggesting blood sacrifice in order to forgive sins is not a christian doctrine
Which god? The followers of every religion make the same claim that you do, with equal conviction.
You can't all be right, but you can all be wrong.
look bro I get it. can you give us quranic verses that order killing of women children like are found in bible ? no.
Why does all this stuff upset you so much?
it doesn't just spotlighting the differences in what christianity has led society into becoming today
Also notice that once again you ignored all the points I raised and simply railed against Christianity and gays. I'm staring to detect a pattern.
 

stanberger

Active Member
You really are obsessed with this caricature of Christianity. Did something happen to you?

But anyway, so you admit that the Quran instructs a husband to beat his wife if he fears ill-conduct from her, under certain conditions. And you consider this instruction to be perfect, morally good, universal and timeless?
not beat. as I said. the threat of divorce in quran will limit his hand against his spouse bible does not allow divorce so you get mothers like Chris watts wife in Colorado who ended up stuffed in an oil barrel next to her two young daughters also slain by their father Chris watts who was called a 'good christian ' man by his pastor
 
So were lots of other killers BTK Dennis Rader appeared as an ordinary family man in Wichita, Kansas, who collected stamps and served as the president of his church. But the seeming doting father and trusted Cub Scout leader was a brutal serial killer everyone thought he was a nice man. If I tell you someone is good you will just believe me?

The bible does allow divorce Moses allows it - protestant church allows it and Catholics call it an annulment ( the marriage no longer exist between the couple )

Chris Watts was just a very selfish evil man.

I have to add he stood there on live TV and lied his face off pretending he did nothing and knew nothing it was sickening.
 
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stanberger

Active Member
So were lots of other killers BTK Dennis Rader appeared as an ordinary family man in Wichita, Kansas, who collected stamps and served as the president of his church. But the seeming doting father and trusted Cub Scout leader was a brutal serial killer everyone thought he was a nice man. If I tell you someone is good you will just believe me?

The bible does allow divorce Moses allows it - protestant church allows it and Catholics call it an annulment ( the marriage no longer exist between the couple )

Chris Watts was just a very selfish evil man.
in bible teachings Chris watts would be exalted
 
Exalted for smothering 2 small children and stuff them in an oil tank and then deny it all what a religion. Can you show a bible passage that say he is to be exalted for killing his children. Oh but you can over look that can't you so he can dominate a woman and be exalted . His a Great example for us men.

Nope he's a sick evil selfish man.
 
Watts killed his entire family in August 2018. The narrative established through investigator interviews and court documents is that he first strangled his wife Shanann, who was 15 weeks pregnant with their son, inside their Frederick, Colorado home before smothering their young daughters, Bella, 4, and Celeste, 3. Then, he attempted to play the role of a concerned husband and dad whose family had gone missing. But that facade soon crumbled: it became evident that he'd been having an affair and, after the bodies were discovered, he was arrested before ultimately pleading guilty to their murders; he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Following his guilty plea and conviction, Chris gave the FBI a chilling five-hour interview detailing the killing of his family. He described in horrific detail how he suffocated his children after strangling Shanann, whom he said didn’t fight back.

He also confessed that he smothered the children first but they didn't die so he smothered them a second time at the oil tank until he was sure they were dead. It was 3 children she was also pregnant.
 
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