Is it okay to kill this?

[McBell]

I'm all for choice. Having sex get's people pregnant. If you don't want to have a baby, choose not to have sex. (Or avoid becoming pregnant in some other way:areyoucra). That may seem a little sexist, sorry. But seriously, the choice to have sex is the choice to chance pregnancy. Seems pretty logical to me.

Well, not having sex greatly reduces your chance of pregnancy, but even complete abstinence is not 100%.

 

[McBell]

Sorry Smoke, but unless the woman was a victim of a sexual assault then the law shouldn't give a damn about at what time it is ethical to force a woman to carry the pregnancy to term.

But the fact of the matter is that the law is concerned with it.

If the woman didn't want a baby she should have either kept her legs closed, or used protection.

Ah.
So having the child is a punishment for having sex..?

 

[McBell]

It might be controversial but I agree. People should take responsibility for their actions.

So abortions are not responsibility?

 

[McBell]

[youtube]6LP3XkeeZuk[/youtube]
YouTube - Baby Born Alive in Abortion Clinic

This is not some emotionally-manipulated video showcasing fetuses at different stages of development, or some heart-rending story by a woman who did or didn't have an abortion.

This video is an actual 9-1-1 call from an abortion clinic where a "fetus" was born alive rather than dead as planned, and the mother changes her mind and wants to try to save the baby.

Touching story.
But it is still an appeal to emotion argument.

 

[McBell]

I tend to take the ole liberal stance on abortion. Even if I don't agree with it sometimes, it's the woman's decision, and she must bear the consequences of her actions, not me. Who am I to deny the woman a right to her own body?

This is pretty much a xerox copy of my thoughts on abortion.

 

[DallasApple]

If a fetus is to be considered a child with rights, what possible difference could it make whether the woman was raped or not?

AGREED! Somehow its murder and inconceivable to abort a fetus at that stage if the woman had voluntary sex..But if she was raped..Its understandable and O.K.

The fetus wh had no choice at all to be concieved ..can be murdered if the mother was raped..but "protected" if the mother had voluntary sex..

Isnt that "discrimenatory" against fetuses that are as the result of rape? How are they any "less" than a woman that "tramps aroudn town" voluntarily havign sex with whomever she pleases and gets pregnant..??

I dont get it..

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Well, I stand corrected.

Fifty babies a year are alive after abortion - Times Online

Im pro choice and for a womans right to choose..But I think 23 and 24 weeks is just too far along..

Love

Dallas

 

[Smoke]

AGREED! Somehow its murder and inconceivable to abort a fetus at that stage if the woman had voluntary sex..But if she was raped..Its understandable and O.K.

The fetus wh had no choice at all to be concieved ..can be murdered if the mother was raped..but "protected" if the mother had voluntary sex..

Isnt that "discrimenatory" against fetuses that are as the result of rape? How are they any "less" than a woman that "tramps aroudn town" voluntarily havign sex with whomever she pleases and gets pregnant..??

I dont get it..

I think I do, but the anti-abortion people will never admit it. I don't think this is about saving "babies" at all. It's about having no compassion for "sinful" or "irresponsible" women.

My mother is hardcore anti-abortion. She even used to go picket outside of clinics. But when a Christian missionary friend of hers got very ill during pregnancy and had to have a therapeutic abortion, Mom didn't think a thing about it. "They had to take the baby." Because you see, her friend was a good Christian woman in a difficult situation. She wasn't like "those" women. And that's really what it comes down to.

 

[dust1n]

So it is in fact quite conscious?

Not in any sense that we use to differentiate between ourselves as self-aware beings and other animals.

Do you have sources that explain when the human becomes consicous and also one that explain how a rat is not conscious?

Of course not; if you think killing all life is wrong, than I can't argue why is should be acceptable.. though; I am still curious to the speculation on how one defines consciousness between plants and animals making plants ok to kill.

 

[dust1n]

It might be controversial but I agree. People should take responsibility for their actions.

Agreed, and certainly taking the responsibility for both conception and abortion would be exemplifying that same responsibility.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

For me, anyone who can look at this picture and without extraordinary circumstances involved not appreciate and respect the preciousness of the life in this womb, is simply not right in the head. Meaning they can contemplate ending its life for convenience sake.

I just don't get how someone could end this babies life without medical reason for doing so. I don't think economic or personal choice should be legal reasons for ending this life in the womb.

 

[McBell]

For me, anyone who can look at this picture and without extraordinary circumstances involved not appreciate and respect the preciousness of the life in this womb, is simply not right in the head. Meaning they can contemplate ending its life for convenience sake.

I just don't get how someone could end this babies life without medical reason for doing so. I don't think economic or personal choice should be legal reasons for ending this life in the womb.

So where do YOU draw the line?

 

[DallasApple]

I think I do, but the anti-abortion people will never admit it. I don't think this is about saving "babies" at all. It's about having no compassion for "sinful" or "irresponsible" women.

My mother is hardcore anti-abortion. She even used to go picket outside of clinics. But when a Christian missionary friend of hers got very ill during pregnancy and had to have a therapeutic abortion, Mom didn't think a thing about it. "They had to take the baby." Because you see, her friend was a good Christian woman in a difficult situation. She wasn't like "those" women. And that's really what it comes down to.

Oh I see so the mother has to be "innocently" impregnated??By rape or even voluntarily as long as its under the "umbrella" of the "marriage bed"?

I dont mean to mock.Because one thing I know even in "those" situations" the women dont usually decide someting like that like they are deciding what to have for dinner..

Its too bad though even though they do it..they judge other women..for doing the EXACT same thing..Maybe that eases their guilt or something I dont know..

Sad..

I will say though..I see very little reason to allow or perform an abortion at 24 weeks..Thats just too damn late..IMHO..

I wouldnt do it..(I mean I wouldn't perform an abortion at that stage)..I couldnt stomach it..

But thats just me..

Love

Dallas

 

[DallasApple]

Agreed, and certainly taking the responsibility for both conception and abortion would be exemplifying that same responsibility.

I agree with this too..Having an abortion isn't a walk in the park ..Its not "nothing" ..Its a way of taking responsibility ..

I dont think some people realize the thought process that goes into having an abortion..

I mean to hear it told..You woudl think women were happilly skipping into abortion clinics to have them cram a suction device into there uterus and laughing and reading people magazine and eating popcorn ...while they "got rid " of the "problem".And then skip happilly out ..to never think of that again..

Love

Dallas

 

[dust1n]

I agree with this too..Having an abortion isn't a walk in the park ..Its not "nothing" ..Its a way of taking responsibility ..

I dont think some people realize the thought process that goes into having an abortion..

I mean to hear it told..You woudl think women were happilly skipping into abortion clinics to have them cram a suction device into there uterus and laughing and reading people magazine and eating popcorn ...while they "got rid " of the "problem".And then skip happilly out ..to never think of that again..

Love

Dallas

Basically. It is rather obvious to me that no one wants to go through an abortion; so if someone did, especially at that late in the process, would probably have a pretty damn good reason for doing so.

 

[RevOxley_501]

I think there is a point, yet unknown by me, where Abortion is fine and a personal matter.

6 weeks sounds reasonable, but 22 seems to me like murder - just from those pictures. Somewhere between those two points is a LOT of gray area that I am unprepared to answer for.

Therefore - I believe that it is every woman's personal responsibility to herself, as well as any families responsibility, to be prepared for the worst case scenarios that occur in life...that way when it comes time to make the decision to abort or not you are at least somewhat prepared and will be able to do so before things get too far into that gray area.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

So where do YOU draw the line?

I don't think in terms of geometry when it comes to babies. I suppose if it was medically a problem to have the baby or some other serious issue.

 

[DallasApple]

I don't think in terms of geometry when it comes to babies. I suppose if it was medically a problem to have the baby or some other serious issue.

Well you should think of it in terms that a woman is a human too.And there is no "baby' without the woman incubating the cells for 40 weeks till birth..Including you..

Do you not get that?

Love

Dallas

 

[McBell]

I don't think in terms of geometry when it comes to babies. I suppose if it was medically a problem to have the baby or some other serious issue.

I meant, when do you consider it wrong?
Do you think it is wrong that millions of potential babies die with each and every ejaculation?
Or does said potential life have to with the egg?

What about every single period ever?
You realize that they were also potential lives, right?

How about fertilization?

 

[Smoke]

I will say though..I see very little reason to allow or perform an abortion at 24 weeks..Thats just too damn late..IMHO..

Honestly, I don't know if I could have anything to do with an abortion at any stage of development. I'll support a woman's right to choose, but for myself the whole idea makes me profoundly uncomfortable. If I were a doctor or nurse I just don't think I could do it.

My Aunt Nancy, who was a midwife, performed full-term abortions in the most horrifying manner when she had to do it to save women's lives. But I think she was tougher than I am.