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Is it ok to "judge" others?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Lycan, Apr 7, 2005.

  1. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    The way I see it, Jesus said "Judge not least ye be judged yourself."
    So I would say no, it is not ok to judge others.
     
  2. prosecutor

    prosecutor Member

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    Luke Wolf, "ARE YOU JUDGING OTHERS FOR JUDGING OTHERS?" Is this your "judgment"?
    Prosecutor
     
  3. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    in response to :-
    So I would say no, it is not ok to judge others.


    Prosecutor, Luke Wolf is not judging people for judging others, he is merely quoting biblical text to prove his point that he does not believe in being judgemental.:jam:
     
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  4. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Judging VS Testing:

    I Thessalonians 5:16 Be joyful always; 17 pray continually; 18 give thanks in all circumstances, for this is God's will for you in Christ Jesus. 19 Do not put out the Spirit's fire; 20 do not treat prophecies with contempt. 21 Test everything. Hold on to the good. 22 Avoid every kind of evil.

    Judging VS Fruit Inspecting

    Galations 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

    Ephesians 5:11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14 for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said: "Wake up, O sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." 15 Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil.

    Don't confuse judgement with discretion. While it is WRONG to pass a sentance on anyone, it is imperitive that we are strong fruit inspectors and are able to discern what is true and what isn't.
     
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  5. prosecutor

    prosecutor Member

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    michel, if being "judgemental" is what Luke Wolf had in mind, why did he not say so? His statement is the same statement made by those who condemn all forms of judging. I can only respond to what is said. If I am wrong let LW clear it up. He made the statement.
    Prosecutor
     
  6. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    All I said is what Jesus said, which is judge not.
    Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2; For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3; And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest no the beam that is in thine own eye? 4; or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5; Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

    What this is saying (verse 1 and 2), is if you judge someone, you will be judged of the same thing, such as being late, not being dressed properly, not obeying road laws, etc., you will be judged against the same thing. An example would be if you are making a fuss because someone is usually late. On a day you would happen to be late, someone WILL notice it, and will be sure to point out that you are late.

    Verse 3 - 5 is saying that to judge someone, first you must pure. You notice the splinter in your brothers eye (pointing out a flaw), you help to remove it, but you make no remark to the splinter in your own eye. First, Jesus said you must take the splinter out of your own eye to see clearly to remove the one in your brothers eye. Jesus said that if you judge the splinter in your brother's eye, but not the one in your own, you are a hypocrite.
    The Bible says, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This implies that none of us a pure, and therefore, if we judge, we are hypocrites.

    So no, I don't think it is ok to judge.
    I believe in critisism when it is necessary, and in private, but I believe what Jesus was talking about was letting everyone know about someone else's flaws. That the flaws of the person are to be left between him and God.
     
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  7. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    I think Jesus was actually saying if one is going to judge someone, expect the same in return. And then in verse 3 he's suggesting that we not judge anyone unless we are living in truth and being righteous and just.
     
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  8. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Yeah, if he weren't an all knowing God, it would be rather offensive. But not nearly as offensive as calling any religious founder or leader a hypocrite.
     
  9. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Thats another Biblical contradiction, Jesus says judge not, but he had no problem judging the Pharasees, or any other religious leaders.
     
  10. prosecutor

    prosecutor Member

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    John 7:24- Judge not according to appearance but judge righteous judgment. "Biblical contradiction"?
    Where is it? Luke Wolf I note you identify yourself as a "pagan". Why would a "pagan" try to explain a Bible verse? Jesus said, "He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:47)
    Prosecutor
     
  11. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Becuase Pagans and Toaists and Atheists have eyes to see and minds that think, just as you do. Becuase if the words are not understandable to that group and others like that group, then there will be fewer "coming to Christ". The Bible should be readable for all and not just those with faith in the Bible.

    That gives us God's license to read and understand.
     
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  12. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    [PARTQUOTE=Luke Wolf]
    "The Bible says, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. This implies that none of us a pure, and therefore, if we judge, we are hypocrites."

    So no, I don't think it is ok to judge.
    "I believe in critisism when it is necessary, and in private, but I believe what Jesus was talking about was letting everyone know about someone else's flaws. That the flaws of the person are to be left between him and God."[/QUOTE]
    Agreed; I hope by that that you mean well intentioned criticism - preferably masked as "what do you think about looking at so and so from a different perspective...." - personally, I don't give criticism; if asked, I may say what I think might be worth trying.:)
     
  13. azeriphaile

    azeriphaile New Member

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    in a word no it is not ok
    by judging others you jusge yourself and if you cannot live up to the mesure you have ayed down by judging then you have damed your self
     
  14. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    I used to be a very strict Christian. Some people would call it being a "super" Christian. So I know alot about the Bible. And since I don't believe in "one valid path to Heaven," I don't mind sharing my thoughts, or helping someone who is having a hard time understanding the Bible.
     
  15. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Pah. Some christians think they have a monopoly on heaven, or on the spirit world (which is far from the truth). Sometimes the best criticism comes from outside the "little circle" people keep themselves in. If you write a poem, the best criticism comes from another. It's the same with everything, ESPECIALLY religion.
     
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  16. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    No! We are not to judge those in the world!
    Paul wrote;
    1Co 5:
    11
    But rather I wrote to you not to associate with any one who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or robber—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. "Drive out the wicked person from among you."

    He claims to be one of us, but he does these ungodly things. He must go!
    We are to judge wickedness in the congregation and get rid of it.
     
  17. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    This isn't the only place that Jesus taught this. Let's take a look, shall we?

    John 8:3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." ---------- NIV

    There was never a question as to whether this lady was an adulteress. Jesus did not castigate them for calling her a sinner. No, the issue was "condemnation". Jesus was the ONLY one there without sin, and even HE did not condemn her. Boy how this contrasts with many of the religious right. They are not only the first ones to cast stones, but they invent sins that aren't in order to exert authority over people!
     
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  18. prosecutor

    prosecutor Member

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    Luke Wolf, if you desire to help someone understand the Bible, you best start with yourself. You might have been in your own eyes or the eyes of others in the past a "super Christian" but whatever, it sure didn't help you with correct Bible interpretation. You may be correct in saying that you "know a lot about the Bible" but you sure don't know the Bible.

    Pah, "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17). The Bible can be understood by those who desire to know its meaning. Your attitude toward the Bible, God, Jesus Christ ect. you have made clear in a number of discussions. You can't see because you have closed your eyes. (cf. Matthew 13:10-17) Don't blame the Bible. When you place human wisdom in the position to be your god, you will never be able to see the Truth.

    Master Vigil, Jesus said that "I am the way, the truth and the life: no one cometh unto the Father but by me" (John 14:6) Now who is it that has a monopoly on heaven? You don't believe in Christ so heaven will never be a place you will occupy. As far as your praise of Pah, well.........
    Prosecutor
     
  19. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    I hope you don't try to get converts that way. :D I wonder though, how do you know what jesus said when he didn't even write anything down? Oh, thats because you are using a book that contains what other people claim he said. Perhaps your monopoly is based on simple heresay, or perhaps the heresay is completely false. Or when jesus said "but by me," he really meant living with him as an example, to treat people the way he did, etc... I wish more christians did the latter.
     
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  20. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Actually, if you just read the Bible, it is very easy to understand, but can be confusing since thier a several contradictions.
    I forget who said, but he said the Bible is a book in which everyone must make thier own intrepretaion. This is correct, and he was burned at the stake for saying it. That fact just shows how greedy and power hungry the early church was. Even some modern churches are still that way.
     
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