Hawk Flint
Member
I didn't know that fully until now. Thanks
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Is it necessary to be baptized as an adult, if you were baptized as a baby?
- Thread starter Deidre
- Start date
I didn't know that fully until now. Thanks
outlawState
Deism is dead
Re-baptism is seldom necessary because you are not baptized into a church but into the name of the "Father, son and Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19.
It's a once only thing. Re-baptism would only be required if you were not baptized into this tri-partite name. If you only come to a knowledge of Christ / God later, then it matters not. It just sanctifies whatever was incomplete in the earlier baptism.
Re-baptism is I believe harmful, unscriptural and to be avoided as it has the appearance of "subjecting God to public disgrace."
Heb 6;6 "To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace."
Well Ok, you could argue that you never knew God the first time if you were a baby; and as it was without your consent you are not subjecting God to public disgrace, but the flip side is that you could make that point even as an adult, and then you could end up being re-baptized multiple times, every time you came to a better awareness of God, or changed denominations, in fact.
The only real case for re-baptism is if you could show that after being baptized, your parents (a) were pagans, (b) brought you up as a pagan, so it would be very insulting to them to get re-baptized. So its a serious thing that I would not advocate.
I have some experience of it. I could just about say that my own parents did not bring me up as a Christian, or at least my Christian education was deeply flawed as a child, but then I have to admit that it was my own sinfulness that inhibited me getting to know Christ also, so all in all, I do regret getting re-baptized after some years, in a similar position to you. I feel it was a pointless exercise, as God did not withhold anything from me on account of not getting re-baptized.
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lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
Except that infant baptism is not taught in the Bible. The Bible says a person must repent of his sins before being baptized and an infant is not able to do this. Infant baptism was invented by the "church" to try to trap people into a lifelong commitment to the church. God wants people to admit they have sinned and ask forgiveness for those sins and then be baptized. So if you were baptized as an infaant it probably would be a good idea to have it done properly.
outlawState
Deism is dead
Paul also said the children of believers were sanctified. Therefore it is plain that Christian parents were able to make the decision to be baptized, i.e. to become sanctified, on their children's behalf, because they had the necessary authority to demand repentance of their children. Creating an artiifical dependency on a believer's state of knowledge is not necessary, because if, like Simon Magus, you fall away, you harm only yourself. If the goal is to ensure that no-one who is baptized ever falls away then no-one gets baptized until the day of death.
The decision to be baptized can in some circumstances be dictated by someone in proper authority over you, as seems to have been the case of the Phillipian jailer's family, even where the members of the family may not really understand the gospel until a later date.
Indeed the Baptist view that a child must decide for himself to "repent" says little for Baptist or parental values, because it is the parent's God-given duty to make sure that he does. So I think objections to infant baptism are made too much of. What is really objectionable is for the children of effective pagans to be baptized as infants, which is quite common.
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lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
If baptism is for the benefit of the child then it should not matter if the parents are Christian or pagan or atheist. If baptism saves the child from sin then it may be more important to baptize children of pagans or atheists. Also in Acts 2:38 Peter tells people to REPENT and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. There is no mention of father, son, holy spirit. And again, children can't repent so why would Peter who is considered the founder of the "church" say something that was not true?
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outlawState
Deism is dead
Peter was speaking to adults and what he said applied to them. Everyone must repent but a child has little to repent of, for as Jesus said the kingdom of God belongs to them.
Luke 18:1.
However I would not go so far as to mandate infant baptism, as it is not necessary. But it is in harmony with the gospel provided the parents are genuine believers, because of the authority principle. As long as they bring the child up in the faith that is sufficient. I think the issues have become distorted. What counts is the status of the one being baptized, and of the parents if an infant. It seems to me that many who practise infant baptism do so even where the faith of the parents is unproven. That is a sin.
Jesus told his apostles; "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.”
I believe Christian baptism symbolizes that a person has made a complete, unreserved, and unconditional dedication through Jesus Christ to do the will of Jehovah God, just as Jesus presented himself to do God's will at his baptism. 1 Peter 3:21 shows the importance of baptism: "Baptism... is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
I think it is obvious that infant baptism is not acceptable to God. Infants cannot be disciples, nor can they pray for a good conscience to God, nor submit themselves to obey God through baptism.
I believe Christian baptism symbolizes that a person has made a complete, unreserved, and unconditional dedication through Jesus Christ to do the will of Jehovah God, just as Jesus presented himself to do God's will at his baptism. 1 Peter 3:21 shows the importance of baptism: "Baptism... is also now saving you (not by the removing of the filth of the flesh, but by the request to God for a good conscience), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
I think it is obvious that infant baptism is not acceptable to God. Infants cannot be disciples, nor can they pray for a good conscience to God, nor submit themselves to obey God through baptism.
outlawState
Deism is dead
I think you are wrong on every count. First the passage that you have quoted shows that baptism comes before teaching. This would indicate that infant baptism is correct if the parents are believers. What could be more incongrous than the parents teaching their infant about Chrst when he had not been baptized? Baptism comes before teaching.
The child of believers is dedicated to Christ through the agency of its parents. As Paul says, the child is sanctified, dedicated to be given a Christian education. Similarly with the pledge of a good conscience. The onus is on the parent to teach the child right from wrong. The decision of the child is made for it. Of course it can rebel, but baptism is not for proving a negative, i.e. that one has not rebelled, which is really what you are trying to make out. A formal statement made by a child of age that it has decided not to rebel against the faith of its parents is an inapposite criteria for baptism.
The illogicality of your position is that you want to see the child of Christians in the same position as the steeped-in-sin Canaanite needing to repent of their sins. It is a false equivalence, and no church should ever treat the child of believers like a pagan who knows nothing of Christ.
The argument for only adult believers baptism is in the case of societal breakdown, where no-one can be sure of another's faith. It is a sad state of affairs when that happens, but perhaps it is on the increase.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Baptism is the Christian introductory rite that relates to and come from the Jewish mikvah. Therefore, any one of any age logically could be baptized as an introduction into Christianity. Some church split the sacrament/ordinance into two: baptism and confirmation, with the latter being a confirmation of the former.
This is true in the Catholic church. One baptism for the forgiveness of sin. One is baptized a Christian, not a Catholic. Baptism, Eucharist, Conformation are sacraments of initiation. In the Orthodox church they are administered at the same time.
This is really helpful, thank you. I agree, that when I was baptized as an infant, I had no idea what was going on. Growing up in a very religious household, much of Christianity at one time, seemed very methodical and legalistic, lacking a sense of spirituality or meaning or purpose. I find that my beliefs now are my own, in a relationship with Jesus, as opposed to ''following'' a set of rules hoping to be accepted by Him. Everyone comes to God as they wish, but this is how I've come to view my faith.
I agree Jehovah does not want a mere ritualistic form of worship. Jesus said in prayer to God; "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ." (John 17:3)
Adamski
Member
Eph 4:5
One faith one lord one baptism
No where in the bible do you see people having to wait to a certain age to be baptized your infant baptism is valid
I suggest though you return to the Catholic Church since Jesus founded the Catholic Church
I never left!
S.T.Ranger
Member
While I hesitate to give the impression that water Baptism is a necessity, I will say that it is commanded by Christ and that while it will not change whether you are Baptized with the Holy Ghost or not (immersed into God), it may that your public profession of Christ holds an importance due to you being formerly Catholic.
And I hate to say it, but your profession of "ownership" implies a bit of hostility towards, perhaps, authority.
My vote would be yes, you should be baptized as a clear statement of rejection of Baptismal Regeneration.
Do you mind if I ask what denomination of Christianity it is that you have joined?
God bless.
S.T.Ranger
Member
We do see, however, a conscious decision for profession of Christ involved in certain baptismal events:
Acts 19
King James Version (KJV)
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Baptism following belief in Christ is the logical conclusion we reach from what Scripture teaches. I would point out that here we see both water Baptism and the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.
We see Cornelius baptized after hearing the Gospel:
Acts 10:34-40
King James Version (KJV)
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all)
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Then he is baptized, both with the Holy Ghost, as well as in water:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
It is Peter, after seeing that they had been Baptized with the Holy Ghost, who calls for them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
That this is the time they are saved in seen in Peter's commentary:
Acts 11:12-18
King James Version (KJV)
12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Water Baptism follows the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, which is more simply stated as "immersion into God," for it is the time at which men are reconciled to God, and brought into Eternal Union with Him.
One can baptize a baby, but, men do not transfer the Holy Ghost in salvific effect. Salvation is the result of trusting Christ by coming into obedience to the Gospel. When a baby is baptized, they do not become regenerated, they simply get wet. The same is true of those who are baptized but have not yet been saved.
God bless.
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
We do see, however, a conscious decision for profession of Christ involved in certain baptismal events:
Acts 19
King James Version (KJV)
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Baptism following belief in Christ is the logical conclusion we reach from what Scripture teaches. I would point out that here we see both water Baptism and the Baptism with the Holy Ghost.
We see Cornelius baptized after hearing the Gospel:
Acts 10:34-40
King James Version (KJV)
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
36 The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all
37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:
40 Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly;
Then he is baptized, both with the Holy Ghost, as well as in water:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
It is Peter, after seeing that they had been Baptized with the Holy Ghost, who calls for them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
That this is the time they are saved in seen in Peter's commentary:
Acts 11:12-18
King James Version (KJV)
12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Water Baptism follows the Baptism with the Holy Ghost, which is more simply stated as "immersion into God," for it is the time at which men are reconciled to God, and brought into Eternal Union with Him.
One can baptize a baby, but, men do not transfer the Holy Ghost in salvific effect. Salvation is the result of trusting Christ by coming into obedience to the Gospel. When a baby is baptized, they do not become regenerated, they simply get wet. The same is true of those who are baptized but have not yet been saved.
God bless.
Paul baptized people into the Spirit, with his hands, after they had already been baptized with water.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Jesu is the only person that can technically baptize anyone. All physical baptism is merely a request, of spiritual baptism.