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Is it Inevitable that China will Overtake America as a World Leader?

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Is it inevitable -- or nearly so -- that China will overtake America as a world leader? If so, why? If not, why not?

Should China overtake America, what would be the consequences to other countries? What would you expect to see?


I am of no firm or settled opinion on either of those issues.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
America is a world leader?

Sure! We proudly lead the world in being the last to figure out what's best for America and the world. “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing --- after they have tried everything else.” -- Churchill
 
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GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
The Chinese like having their own way — don't we all? — but they don't insist that their way is the only acceptable way and try to undermine everyone else's. I haven't seen China attempting regime change, for example.

I don't think the world needs a leader, and certainly not the USA, which is usually the problem rather than the solution. I do think that China is on the way to becoming the most important country, and I can live with that.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Is it inevitable -- or nearly so -- that China will overtake America as a world leader? If so, why? If not, why not?

Should China overtake America, what would be the consequences to other countries? What would you expect to see?


I am no firm or settled opinion on both issues.
"The earliest known written records of the history of Chinadate from as early as 1250 BC, from the Shang dynasty (c. 1600–1046 BC). ... With thousands of years of continuous history,China is one of the world's oldest civilizations, and is regarded as one of the cradles of civilization." wiki

With about 1.3 billion in population and long long long history the real question is why arent they. Isnt the recent shift in american selection of its president seeking to catch up with china and russia for that matter? There used to be a shift in those two countries towards democracy, now its the US shifting to be more like china and russia. Whether thats a long term shift or simply an election cycle is TBD as far as i can tell.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
"Leader" of what? Greed? Stupidity? Anti-social socialism? They seem to be following our lead right into the abyss. Who cares who gets there first or makes the the bigger splash?
 
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Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Is it inevitable -- or nearly so -- that China will overtake America as a world leader? If so, why? If not, why not?

China might want to take over from America in becoming the world's biggest bully but that has a cost and their economy is nowhere close to be as good as they pretend it is, so no, I don't think it's happening just yet.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Is it inevitable -- or nearly so -- that China will overtake America as a world leader? If so, why? If not, why not?

Should China overtake America, what would be the consequences to other countries? What would you expect to see?


I am no firm or settled opinion on both issues.

I suppose anything is possible. Much of what has boosted China's standing in the world has largely been due to America's policies, particularly during the Cold War when America's policy was more anti-Soviet (or anti-Russian) than it was strictly anti-communist.

We were okay with communist Yugoslavia when they made their break from the Soviet Union, and China's break from the Soviet Union was also seen as an opportunity in the eyes of American foreign policy experts.

Nixon, for one, made inroads in improving Sino-American relations while further isolating the Soviet Bloc. Reagan also had friendly policies towards China, while calling the USSR the "evil empire." Moreover, even while the Berlin Wall fell, the Warsaw Pact disbanded, and the Soviet Union officially dissolved, the U.S. still maintained friendly policies towards China, even despite the growth of the democracy movement which was crushed by the Tiananmen Square massacre - a wantonly brutal act which the U.S. government all but turned the blind eye to.

I also recall by the late 1990s that US media had gone soft on China, as exemplified by some media moguls (Murdoch of Fox News fame, Redstone of Viacom, Levin of Time-Warner) attending the 50th anniversary of the Communist Revolution. One journalist called it "one big icky fawning session." (Source: In the Jaws of the Dragon - page 265)

We could have pushed further and tried to isolate China, particularly due to their human rights abuses, but the allure of high profit potential from China made that a non-viable option. Capitalists wanting to make more money took precedence over any principles.

https://shorensteincenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/2000_11_mirsky.pdf?x78124

Some Western newspaper proprietors ensure that criticism of China will be restrained. Of these the most well-known is Rupert Murdoch whose positive views of China in the interest of his commercial interests there are a matter of record. After dropping the BBC from his Star television network in Hong Kong and selling the extremely profitable South China Morning Post, Mr. Murdoch observed that he didn't wish to irritate Beijing because of the opinions of some of his newspaper editors. He blocked the publication of Hong Kong ex-Governor Chris Patten's East and West - despite a contractual obligation with Mr. Murdoch's publishing house HarperCollins - because, he observed later, he saw no reason to anger the leaders of a country where he was an investor. During Mr. Murdoch's visit to Beijing in December 1998, President Jiang Zemin congratulated his guest for presenting China objectively and cooperating with the Chinese press, while Mr Murdoch expressed his admiration for China's achievements in all respects over the past two decades.

As the East Asia editor of Mr. Murdoch's The Times for five years, I observed the impact of the paper's owner on how it covered or did not cover China. Mr. Murdoch, however, is not alone. At the Fortune-sponsored CEO's meeting in Shanghai in September 1999, Sumner Redstone, chairman of Viacom and a prospective buyer of CBS, said at a news conference, "Journalistic integrity must prevail in the final analysis. ..that doesn't mean that journalistic integrity should be exercised in a way that is unnecessarily offensive to the countries in which you operate."24

As a result, the US and other Western media didn't want to "unnecessarily offend" China, especially since US companies were making enormous profits from both selling to China as well as utilizing their large but cheap captive labor force.

And this goes all the way back to the Clinton Administration, which itself was the subject of controversy from being seen as too friendly to China, along with allegations that China funded and supported the Clinton campaign.

So, if China is any way a "threat" to America or our position in the world, it's only because multiple administrations, along with numerous US corporations, made it that way. Some people might suggest that all of this goes along with Mao's original perception of the US as a "paper tiger" and the idea that communism could ultimately defeat capitalism without firing a shot. Tempted by the love of profits and the enormous wealth to be gained, US political and business leaders threw caution to the four winds in regards to our policy towards China.

As a result, we're now more vulnerable and in a position where China could conceivably overtake us as a world leader.

America's only real hope at present is to try to build stronger relations within our own hemisphere, and let China and Russia have the eastern hemisphere. We don't need to interfere or intervene in the eastern hemisphere anymore. We still have enough strength to be a respectable regional power, at least enough so that the eastern hemisphere will leave us alone. But as far as America being a world leader - those days are over, and the sooner we come to realize this, the better off we'll be.
 

Milton Platt

Well-Known Member
Is it inevitable -- or nearly so -- that China will overtake America as a world leader? If so, why? If not, why not?

Should China overtake America, what would be the consequences to other countries? What would you expect to see?


I am of no firm or settled opinion on either of those issues.

I don’t think it is inevitable, but it has a fair degree of probability.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Is it inevitable -- or nearly so -- that China will overtake America as a world leader? If so, why? If not, why not?

Should China overtake America, what would be the consequences to other countries? What would you expect to see?


I am of no firm or settled opinion on either of those issues.

China has huge problems.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Is it inevitable -- or nearly so -- that China will overtake America as a world leader? If so, why? If not, why not?

Should China overtake America, what would be the consequences to other countries? What would you expect to see?


I am of no firm or settled opinion on either of those issues.

Please explain your concept of "world leader".
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Is it inevitable -- or nearly so -- that China will overtake America as a world leader? If so, why? If not, why not?

Should China overtake America, what would be the consequences to other countries? What would you expect to see?


I am of no firm or settled opinion on either of those issues.
Its a bit nebulous what China is not just what its going to be. Its like a big, hot, molten planet right now. There is no clear outcome. China is merely the first country to experiment with high levels of personal automated control. Those who appear to support the Party are in favor. That's the future of China currently. I think it comes from belief in the word 'China'. The symbol for 'China' means 'Standard' or something like that. That's why it looks like a flag. When they say 'China' they are talking about a standard way of life for all to the largest extent possible. To this end I think they have compromised towards capitalism and the west. Its an attempt to make a culture that will spread, sort of neutralize tensions worldwide resulting a happy future for all. Will it work? I have no idea. Will it spread? I also don't know that. If, however, the Chinese culture does not spread then I think that is the end of the question. I don't think conquest is in the future. Rather there will be further changes to the culture to effect a general spread and normalization worldwide. I think they believe very strongly in technology and soft power.

China however has a lot of old superstitions about war. Some feel that there is a sort of automatic, natural clash coming between the major countries and view war as a kind of earthquake due to immovable forces. They seem to think the history of western incursions into Asia by England and other European nations indicates some kind of future confrontation, like an inertia of war. Its a bit like reading tea leaves I think, very superstitious, very much like crystal gazing. I feel this is quite a dangerous thing to believe, but I don't really know if it would result in causing war. Probably not. Its loosely analogous to the superstitions surrounding the book of Revelation and that there must be an Armageddon and so forth. In the end wars are political, and if there is some kind of war it will have the goal of enhancing the stature of some jerk who shouldn't be in power in the first place.
 
It will be one of the poles in a multipolar world, but would be difficult to become a hegemon.

It lacks a culture that readily translates to an international context, and its ideology of economic nationalism isn't one that draws others into its sphere.

America was the leader of an ideological bloc, then was the sole superpower in a unipolar world. China will be neither, as the global milieu will be more like the Great Power rivalries of the 19th C.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
America is world leader in its own mind.

China, will it will take over? I though america was so deep in debt to china that its already there.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Is it inevitable -- or nearly so -- that China will overtake America as a world leader? If so, why? If not, why not?

Should China overtake America, what would be the consequences to other countries? What would you expect to see?


I am of no firm or settled opinion on either of those issues.

Not inevitable.
China has it's own problems, and it's a little hard (at least for me) to work out if their economy is anything like it is portrayed. The joys of communism.
Still, they have a lot of economic clout and both the ability and willingness to flex military muscle (if so far on a more muted scale) so I think it is possible.

Sidenote, but those suggesting America isn't a leader amongst the world's nations are kidding themselves, or (perhaps) associating the word 'leader' with positive forces, which isn't really the case.
 
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