Is it difficult for you to accept that others see truth in a different way then you self?

[stvdv]

Does it really mean you have to argue toward the other person as if he/she is dumb?

NO. I don't tell him he is dumb. IF he behaves arrogantly THEN I will tell him that arrogance is not a charmer.

 

[stvdv]

What if both teachings are correct, but thought in different ways because they are meant only for those who chose to follow it?

My Master loved to teach us this type of lesson:
Once My Master called in 2 women. He whispered in the ear of woman1 "tomorrow at the gate you only allow Indians to enter". And he whispered in the ear of woman2 "tomorrow at the gate you only allow non-Indians to enter". Next day woman1 and woman2 were fighting like dogs at the gate. My Master asked them "how did it go at the gate?". Both were shouting "She did it wrong".
Then my Master said "you should both have done, as I told you, then all people would have entered".

 

[PruePhillip]

didn't those doctrines evolve over time and had nothing to do with the original proto-religion that started the tradition?

You can Google the differences between Jesus and Mohammed.
It's quite startling in its contrasts.
Mohammed was a conquering, killing, warlord - the world's first
Islamic Jew killer. A pedophile by our modern definition of the
word. He and his ilk took the bible and crafted it to suit their
purpose.

 

[PruePhillip]

Is moving the goalposts one of your favourite tricks?

You said...

"My annoyance is when they say the universe came from nothing and for no reason whatsoever. I ask them for the evidence and they give me none."​

I explained why that won't happen,... meaning you misunderstood...

And i provide evidence that again you (perhaps deliberately) misunderstood, of how the universe could occur from nothing.

This "nothing" is the "nothing" of quantum vacuum. Within this "nothing" there's this bubbling
foam of particle and anti-particle which annihilate each other as soon as they pop out of the
"nothing." Sometimes this can lead to the formation of a new chunk of space-time, ballooning
out to create a new universe. It's all theoretical and we both are in no position to argue with
the pencil heads here. But this isn't creating a universe from a true "nothing" - it's creating
a baby universe from a parent universe - employing existing space-time and physics.
The "nothing" I speak of is what must have "existed" before the Big Bang, that which the
universe "pushes into." It's like time before time began, north of the north pole sort of thing.

 

[Revoltingest]

Often it can be seen that someone from a certain religion says something that triggers some other person who follows a different religion, and yes that is a normal reaction because we are all different.

But a question that comes to mind is: Does it really matter what others believe? Is it not most important to yourself that you are able to follow the religious/spiritual teaching you have chosen to follow?
If someone from a certain religion says something you disagree with because the teaching you study your self say something different? Does it really mean you have to argue toward the other person as if he/she is dumb?

With time I've managed to overcome (to a 23% extent so far)
harsh judgments of those who are wrong (ie, disagree with me).
Until I get over the hump (50%) I must rely upon biting my tongue.

 

[PruePhillip]

Sounds like maybe you're conflating administrators with scientists?

In a way, yes I am.
There are of course things science can never explain, but I don't wish
to go there as I love science and I was once a science teacher.
The case of the quasi-crystals was shocking to me because the scientist
who won the Nobel for this didn't theorize them - he saw them in a
microscope, but couldn't' convince anyone they existed.

I tried to talk to a lady scientist, Uni of Newcastle, there were large
sandstone building blocks surrounding an aborigine carving she
wrote a paper on. She claimed not to have seen them, despite having
to step over them. Simply put - she wrote a paper on the carving but
wouldn't write one on a possible aboriginal (or I suspect Polynesian)
carved stone building because that's not accepted.

But true denial is when scholars 'date something in the bible on the
basis of some prophecy made - on the basis that no-one can tell
the future therefore it was written post-event. And where this tactic
can't possibly work - ignore the text.
Or work which is shunned because it's career destroying like the
work of Peter Fenwick

Sometimes the world really is weirder than you can imagine. Saying so
might end your career.

 

[PruePhillip]

With time I've managed to overcome (to a 23% extent so far)
harsh judgments of those who are wrong (ie, disagree with me).
Until I get over the hump (50%) I must rely upon biting my tongue.

No harsh judgments please. We are all here to learn.
I love what Elon Musk once said, "If you can prove me
wrong that would be great."

 

[Revoltingest]

No harsh judgments please.

I agree.

 

[idea]

My Master loved to teach us this type of lesson:
Once My Master called in 2 women. He whispered in the ear of woman1 "tomorrow at the gate you only allow Indians to enter". And he whispered in the ear of woman2 "tomorrow at the gate you only allow non-Indians to enter". Next day the woman1 and woman2 were fighting like dogs at the gate. My Master asked them "how did it go at the gate?". Both were shouting "She did it wrong".
Then my Master said "you should both have done, as I told you, then all people would have entered".

I love this. Thank you for sharing.

It is very sad for all those who claim theirs is the only "one true church"
One true church - Wikipedia


I do find myself getting angry with anyone who thinks theirs is the one "true" church. How to avoid becoming angry?

 

[Milton Platt]

Often it can be seen that someone from a certain religion says something that triggers some other person who follows a different religion, and yes that is a normal reaction because we are all different.

But a question that comes to mind is: Does it really matter what others believe? Is it not most important to yourself that you are able to follow the religious/spiritual teaching you have chosen to follow?
If someone from a certain religion says something you disagree with because the teaching you study your self say something different? Does it really mean you have to argue toward the other person as if he/she is dumb?
What if both teachings are correct, but thought in different ways because they are meant only for those who chose to follow it?

It matters what others believe if A) their beliefs affect my life or B) they wish to convince others what they believe is true or C) Their beliefs cause harm to others.

 

[atanu]

Often it can be seen that someone from a certain religion says something that triggers some other person who follows a different religion, and yes that is a normal reaction because we are all different.

But a question that comes to mind is: Does it really matter what others believe? Is it not most important to yourself that you are able to follow the religious/spiritual teaching you have chosen to follow?
If someone from a certain religion says something you disagree with because the teaching you study your self say something different? Does it really mean you have to argue toward the other person as if he/she is dumb?
What if both teachings are correct, but thought in different ways because they are meant only for those who chose to follow it?

No one can deny one's existence. No truth cannot be bigger than this. In my understanding, 'Aham Brahmasmi', 'I am That I am', and 'Anal Haqq' all point towards the same reality, but individual understanding vary diversely due to individual's level and due to effect of culture. Sufi Mansoor was hanged for saying 'Anal Haq'.

In this forum too, you will find a follower of one religion bashing other religions more than even the atheists. It is, in my opinion, not because of what the scriptures teach but it is due to a person's inability to imbibe the teaching of the scripture fully, and on account of being driven by identification with ego (Me and My group). There is a high chance that this post will be disliked by atheists and by some theists alike.

...

 

[loverofhumanity]

Often it can be seen that someone from a certain religion says something that triggers some other person who follows a different religion, and yes that is a normal reaction because we are all different.

But a question that comes to mind is: Does it really matter what others believe? Is it not most important to yourself that you are able to follow the religious/spiritual teaching you have chosen to follow?
If someone from a certain religion says something you disagree with because the teaching you study your self say something different? Does it really mean you have to argue toward the other person as if he/she is dumb?
What if both teachings are correct, but thought in different ways because they are meant only for those who chose to follow it?

Hi Amanaki. I hope you are keeping safe. We are just staying at home and trying not to think about all the trouble but how is it possible not to feel distressed and distraught for our fellow humans as we are all connected by our humanity?

It’s very good I believe for each person to have or gollow a spiritual path that will bring them peace, happiness and comfort to themselves and others.

I believe that no belief is truly spiritual or based in truth if it does not love and accept all human beings as equal and all deserving to be loved and appreciated.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Hi Amanaki. I hope you are keeping safe. We are just staying at home and trying not to think about all the trouble but how is it possible not to feel distressed and distraught for our fellow humans as we are all connected by our humanity?

It’s very good I believe for each person to have or gollow a spiritual path that will bring them peace, happiness and comfort to themselves and others.

I believe that no belief is truly spiritual or based in truth if it does not love and accept all human beings as equal and all deserving to be loved and appreciated.

All is well with me yes Except for difficulty getting healthy food now I am managing ok Yes to have faith that all will be well soon is important, and even Norway is not hit very hard of the Coronavirus it is mostly lockdown here every day, so all I can do is to buy some food, then go home and stay at home for now.

To see other people as people with their own belief and be happy they found what is good for them is important, and to help them through difficult times with maybe discussing their own belief, from their own religious books, has to me become more important then to spread my own understanding and views.

 

[ChristineM]

This "nothing" is the "nothing" of quantum vacuum. Within this "nothing" there's this bubbling
foam of particle and anti-particle which annihilate each other as soon as they pop out of the
"nothing." Sometimes this can lead to the formation of a new chunk of space-time, ballooning
out to create a new universe. It's all theoretical and we both are in no position to argue with
the pencil heads here. But this isn't creating a universe from a true "nothing" - it's creating
a baby universe from a parent universe - employing existing space-time and physics.
The "nothing" I speak of is what must have "existed" before the Big Bang, that which the
universe "pushes into." It's like time before time began, north of the north pole sort of thing.

Nope, not even theoretical but hypothetical, ideas based on observation and/or mathematics, as i said right at the beginning.

What must have existed before? This i got to hear and there may be a Nobel prize in it for you.

"Must" is a poor choice of word in the case of the unknown

 

[PruePhillip]

Nope, not even theoretical but hypothetical, ideas based on observation and/or mathematics, as i said right at the beginning.

What must have existed before? This i got to hear and there may be a Nobel prize in it for you.

"Must" is a poor choice of word in the case of the unknown

We don't know what existed before the Big Bang. There's this theory called M-theory
which posits colliding membranes in higher dimensions. Maybe someone is trying to
bamboozle us here. Anyhow, such a membrane universe is just another iteration, one
more step back. The real question is why there is something rather than nothing.

There's only two option IMO - either the universe had a true beginning or the universe
has been here forever. The latter is a fudge as far as I can tell. And IMO to create the
first universe you had to have been outside that universe to create it.

 

[pearl]

The key is 'different' as opposed to right or wrong.

 

[ChristineM]

We don't know what existed before the Big Bang. There's this theory called M-theory
which posits colliding membranes in higher dimensions. Maybe someone is trying to
bamboozle us here. Anyhow, such a membrane universe is just another iteration, one
more step back. The real question is why there is something rather than nothing.

There's only two option IMO - either the universe had a true beginning or the universe
has been here forever. The latter is a fudge as far as I can tell. And IMO to create the
first universe you had to have been outside that universe to create it.

There are no theories. To make such a claim requires knowledge.

Oh, right i get it. You are applying the religious version of theory (i.e. guess) to science... Doesn't work like that. In science a theory must be capable of being tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method.

I know 29 hypothesis regarding the beginning of the universe the colliding membranes hypothesis of M theory is just one, an old one but still a possibility. I favour the colliding universe theory of Dr Mersini-Houghton, it makes sense of the 3 previously unexplained phenomenon visible in our universe and the winner, it came to her one morning while drinking a coffee

Oh tell your idea to the cosmologists at the perimeter institute, i am sure they would be over the moon to know that you need to be outside to crested the universe...

 

[Quiddity]

Yes, I always wince, rather, when religions speak of "truth". How can they know, any more than we do in other aspects of our existence?

Such a disposition should be applied without discrimination. Or do you think only people of religion can get dogmatic, have presuppositions, biases, etc.? Why only wince in one direction? The lack of wincing if you will, would be a disservice to science for example.

 

[PruePhillip]

There are no theories. To make such a claim requires knowledge.

Oh, right i get it. You are applying the religious version of theory (i.e. guess) to science... Doesn't work like that. In science a theory must be capable of being tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method.

I know 29 hypothesis regarding the beginning of the universe the colliding membranes hypothesis of M theory is just one, an old one but still a possibility. I favour the colliding universe theory of Dr Mersini-Houghton, it makes sense of the 3 previously unexplained phenomenon visible in our universe and the winner, it came to her one morning while drinking a coffee

Oh tell your idea to the cosmologists at the perimeter institute, i am sure they would be over the moon to know that you need to be outside to crested the universe...

Not just a religious notion, not just a lack of knowledge, but a logic one.
1 - the universe always existed
2 - it had a beginning.

In the hyper-mind-bending way of the universe there could
be other options, but I suspect this is unlikely. Just the same, one day for
sure we will see the Big Bang not as the "cause" for the universe being
here but the effect of other phenomena.
Isn't the colliding universe also the M-theory one? Regardless - the next
question is where did these colliding universes come from?

 

[ChristineM]

Not just a religious notion, not just a lack of knowledge, but a logic one.
1 - the universe always existed
2 - it had a beginning.

In the hyper-mind-bending way of the universe there could
be other options, but I suspect this is unlikely. Just the same, one day for
sure we will see the Big Bang not as the "cause" for the universe being
here but the effect of other phenomena.
Isn't the colliding universe also the M-theory one? Regardless - the next
question is where did these colliding universes come from?

1is a problem given the various ways the universe can be sent to ve inflating and the data of the cmb

2 is pretty certain, that is what all the hypothesis regarding how the universe began use as a base.

m theory is an attempt to unify superstring theory. That is the particle physics end.

Before the next question is even seriously thought of the current question needs to be answered and that answer understood