Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

[Levite]

Is it a sin to seek knowledge?

Is it a sin to want to open one’s eyes instead of being blind?

Is it a sin to do as scriptures urge us to do?

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gen 3:2 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

Adam and Eve were doing exactly what we are all told by scriptures to do, yet God seemed quite upset.

Why is seeking knowledge and ignoring a vile command to remain in ignorant bliss wrong or a sin?

Are you sinning when you seek knowledge and becoming more like God?

Regards
DL

I can't speak to the NT quote, since that's not my religion. But as for Genesis, I believe that the Adam and Eve story is a parable. Entirely allegorical. God's "wrath" is the same anxiety every parent feels when they want to spare their children the weight of living in a world which is not really safe, and never fair. Eden, prior to eating the "fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" is childhood. Eating the fruit is growing into awareness, losing our naivete, and having to leave the house of our parents to make our way on our own.

I don't think the story has anything to do with seeking knowledge in general, nor does it conflict with the general encouragement that we emulate God (our version, I think, is much more realistic than the NT version, asking of us only that we be holy, not that we be perfect).

 

[Etritonakin]

Nobody lied in the garden event.
I got a thread around here somewhere on that very notion.

Satan did lie -but subtly.

Gen_3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen_3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen_3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Ye shall not surely die was a lie.

if one twists what God said, what he said can appear untrue -and what the serpent said can appear to be true.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

That is true -but it does not necessarily mean what one thinks it does.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

It is not knowledge which is forbidden. That is part of the lie.
It is the knowledge of good AND EVIL.
When you add the AND EVIL part, it means that you will KNOW LIES and HALF-TRUTHS and BELIEVE FALSE THINGS WHICH WILL KILL YOU.
It means knowing enough -and being ignorant enough -to be a danger to yourself.
The tree of life is ONLY GOOD -which means MORE knowldege MORE quickly -NO lies -NO misrepresentations -NO calamities due to lack of vision and incomplete knowledge, etc., etc.
Having access to the source of ALL KNOWLEDGE is a REALLY GOOD IDEA.

"Unheeded warnings
I thought I thought of everything"

 

[ChristineES]

So, is it equally wrong to say that if you eat from the tree of knowledge you will die?

Ciao

- viole

That was a symbolic story and even if it wasn't, God told them to stay away from it. They DISOBEYED God, as I keep saying.
We can't know what God's will is, my faith says. People who don't follow my faith or don't follow any faith, might make fun of that or they might criticize that. But this is our beliefs. Let's assume the story is literal: Wouldn't you or I have thought that after they matured some, that God would have given them fruit of the Tree of Knowledge? Or maybe he wanted them to learn things gradually and not get it all at once?Those are the kinds of things that I think about when I read scriptures and I get the same kinds of thoughts from others who study the Bible. When I was a child, my parents gave me Winnie the Pooh to read, they didn't give me War and Peace. They would not let me look at dirty magazines. She gave me to read what I could understand.

I have to admit, that was a really nice try. I could see it coming since you started: That question about the Tree of Knowledge.

 

[Thief]

Satan did lie -but subtly.

Gen_3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen_3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen_3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Ye shall not surely die was a lie.

if one twists what God said, what he said can appear untrue -and what the serpent said can appear to be true.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

That is true -but it does not necessarily mean what one thinks it does.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

It is not knowledge which is forbidden. That is part of the lie.
It is the knowledge of good AND EVIL.
When you add the AND EVIL part, it means that you will KNOW LIES and HALF-TRUTHS and BELIEVE FALSE THINGS WHICH WILL KILL YOU.
It means knowing enough -and being ignorant enough -to be a danger to yourself.
The tree of life is ONLY GOOD -which means MORE knowldege MORE quickly -NO lies -NO misrepresentations -NO calamities due to lack of vision and incomplete knowledge, etc., etc.
Having access to the source of ALL KNOWLEDGE is a REALLY GOOD IDEA.

"Unheeded warnings
I thought I thought of everything"

The subtle part was not making distinction of which death is pending.
Partake and die....yes we will.
Fail to partake and die in spirit....yes you would.

 

[gnostic]

Satan did lie -but subtly.

Gen_3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen_3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen_3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

Ye shall not surely die was a lie.

if one twists what God said, what he said can appear untrue -and what the serpent said can appear to be true.

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

That is true -but it does not necessarily mean what one thinks it does.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

It is not knowledge which is forbidden. That is part of the lie.
It is the knowledge of good AND EVIL.
When you add the AND EVIL part, it means that you will KNOW LIES and HALF-TRUTHS and BELIEVE FALSE THINGS WHICH WILL KILL YOU.
It means knowing enough -and being ignorant enough -to be a danger to yourself.
The tree of life is ONLY GOOD -which means MORE knowldege MORE quickly -NO lies -NO misrepresentations -NO calamities due to lack of vision and incomplete knowledge, etc., etc.
Having access to the source of ALL KNOWLEDGE is a REALLY GOOD IDEA.

"Unheeded warnings
I thought I thought of everything"

I thought the same, until I've read it more closely, and realised the usual (Christian) interpretation to Genesis 2 & 3, about eating the fruit and dying is wrong.

In verse 2:13, God clearly state that you (Adam) will die ON THE DAY YOU EAT THE FRUIT. Using your quote:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

God was quite specific as to WHEN Adam would die - on that very day, should Adam disobey him and eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. God didn't say to Adam that they will die 1 year or 1 decade from then, or 930 years from then.

But like the serpent...NOT SATAN...said to her (Eve), they didn't die ON THAT DAY.

It is this sort of reason why I no longer rely on Christian interpretations or church teachings on any part of Hebrew texts (referring to the Old Testament). You (not just you, but "you" as in some Christian) seemed to have blind spot when it come to interpretations or scholarship, and have the tendencies to twist what they read (like all the assumptions regarding to satan or the messiah in OT).

Your reading skill or scholarship is pathetically sloppy, Etritonakin.

 

[Etritonakin]

I thought the same, until I've read it more closely, and realised the usual (Christian) interpretation to Genesis 2 & 3, about eating the fruit and dying is wrong.

In verse 2:13, God clearly state that you (Adam) will die ON THE DAY YOU EAT THE FRUIT. Using your quote:



God was quite specific as to WHEN Adam would die - on that very day, should Adam disobey him and eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. God didn't say to Adam that they will die 1 year or 1 decade from then, or 930 years from then.

But like the serpent...NOT SATAN...said to her (Eve), they didn't die ON THAT DAY.

It is this sort of reason why I no longer rely on Christian interpretations or church teachings on any part of Hebrew texts (referring to the Old Testament). You (not just you, but "you" as in some Christian) seemed to have blind spot when it come to interpretations or scholarship, and have the tendencies to twist what they read (like all the assumptions regarding to satan or the messiah in OT).

Your reading skill or scholarship is pathetically sloppy, Etritonakin.

Obviously.... if it is not what you think, there is something wrong with me.... but let's consider that phrase -and what it means....

It is translated from one word....
H3117
יום
yôm
yome
From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger.

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Obviously, there is a contradiction here, right? Here, it obviously says God created the heavens and the earth in one 24 hour earth day -does it not?
So... because seven days are mentioned elsewhere, the bible is bad.


That's like telling someone you'll be there in a minute -and them getting mad because it took longer than 60 seconds.

Believe... don't believe.... but the literal game? Really?

 

[viole]

That was a symbolic story and even if it wasn't, God told them to stay away from it. They DISOBEYED God, as I keep saying.
We can't know what God's will is, my faith says. People who don't follow my faith or don't follow any faith, might make fun of that or they might criticize that. But this is our beliefs. Let's assume the story is literal: Wouldn't you or I have thought that after they matured some, that God would have given them fruit of the Tree of Knowledge? Or maybe he wanted them to learn things gradually and not get it all at once?Those are the kinds of things that I think about when I read scriptures and I get the same kinds of thoughts from others who study the Bible. When I was a child, my parents gave me Winnie the Pooh to read, they didn't give me War and Peace. They would not let me look at dirty magazines. She gave me to read what I could understand.

I have to admit, that was a really nice try. I could see it coming since you started: That question about the Tree of Knowledge.

Well, this leads directly to divine command theory. Whatever God orders is good, even if, prima facie, it seems wrong. And if God orders me to kill the first child I see, then I would committ sin by not obeying Him. It could be that He has good reasons to order me that. For instance, that child could be the next Hitler. I can always find a rationalization.

I wonder what happens if He orders not to obey Him at all

Ciao

- viole

 

[ChristineES]

Well, this leads directly to divine command theory. Whatever God orders is good, even if, prima facie, it seems wrong. And if God orders me to kill the first child I see, then I would commit sin by not obeying Him. It could be that He has good reasons to order me that. For instance, that child could be the next Hitler. I can always find a rationalization.

I wonder what happens if He orders not to obey Him at all

Ciao

- viole

I see it quite differently than you. I don't think that God is going to ask me to kill some innocent child and if I did receive some message that told me to kill a child, then I would believe it wasn't from God. I really can't see how you went from my belief about Adam and Eve onto some random thoughts about murdering someone, especially a child, though.

Ciao for now. There's nothing else for me to say here.