Is Islamophobia bigotry?

[Epic Beard Man]

~15-25%

The peaceful majority is irrelevant.


15-25% where did you get that number? If that percentage is true Dearborn Michigan would be a battleground don't be intellectually dishonest....


At least the Jews didn't use the Muslim gravestones for toilets and building streets.

Muslims, or the terrorists among the Muslim populace?

Meanwhile in "Eastern Jerusalem"...

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It is common for Muslim sympathizers to claim that almost no Muslim is a terrorist. However, public opinion polls in arab nations or among arabic popluations show large support for terrorism.

Muslim Opinion Polls

NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified

People-Press: 31% of Turks support suicide attacks against Westerners in Iraq.

YNet: One third of Palestinians (32%) supported the slaughter of a Jewish family, including the children:

World Public Opinion: 83% of Egyptians approve of attacks on American troops.
68% of Moroccans approve of attacks on American troops.
90% of Palestinians approve of attacks on American troops.
72% of Jordanians approve of attacks on American troops.

World Public Opinion (2009): 30% of Palestinians support attacks on American civilians working in Muslim countries.

Pew Research (2010): 15% of Indonesians believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.
34% of Nigerian Muslims believe suicide bombings are often or sometimes justified.

16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable".

Pew Research (2007): 26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).

Sure, skewed research and poll data really reflect a realistic view of over a billion people. How about this let me poll people who have delt with institutionalized racism and how they feel about non-people of color, I'm sure I'll get similar data.

 

[Erebus]

In very general terms, I dislike Islam.

I dislike the notion of there being a single, supreme deity. I dislike the notion of Hell, particularly when it's eternal. I dislike the idea that one religion is better than all others. I dislike the idea that a given religion should be inextricably tied to politics.

In other words, I dislike Islam for much the same reasons I dislike Christianity. I also accept that my issues with both can only be applied in general terms and that not every Muslim/Christian believes the same things. I don't think that's Islamophobic of me, though I imagine there are plenty who disagree.

What I do find Islamophobic are, for example, the recent increase in hate crimes committed against Muslims in my country. The victims of these crimes aren't always Muslim either, they just "look Muslim" to their attackers. Hard to paint that sort of thing as anything other than bigotry in my opinion.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I find Islamic text to be insulting to ones intelligence no matter how much spin the apologists want to put on it.

That is your opinion you can make the same argument for any scripture that speaks on the metaphysical.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

This is what people should fear...Irrational behavior such as this:

Israel: Christian Father Charged With Murdering Daughter Over Muslim Relationship

 

[columbus]

What I do find Islamophobic are, for example, the recent increase in hate crimes committed against Muslims in my country.

This is kinda what I see. The ugly "Nuke the diaper heads" attitude is alive and well in southern Indiana. But it is still not at all the norm here. Most people have a much more enlightened attitude.
But oftentimes, sensible wariness and very legitimate criticism gets labelled as islamophobia when it is not. I don't don't have the slightest trouble distinguishing between the religious freedom of Muslims and, say, Muslims demonstrating against freedom of speech for others.
Tom

 

[Notanumber]

What is wrong with being gay?

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/07/17/pride-in-london-condemns-islamophobia-in-allah-is-gay-row/

 

[England my lionheart]

Let's get something straight I am not Muslim. First, although my religious status says "One that which the Creator made" does not by default make me Muslim nor is my defense against bigotry of those of the Islamic faith. I'm an agnostic-theist (although leaning towards deism), and I do believe in One incorporeal entity that is the maker of this universe but my beliefs with regards to religious matters vary heavily of those of the Abrahamic faiths. I mention this given the above bold of what you stated as it infers that I am Muslim somehow.

Second, you need to ask a Muslim with regards to eschatology and afterlife matters as I am not intellectually equipped to discuss heavily on Quranic interpretation of such things. Like anything, things can be taken into extreme and we can falsely interpret words to suit our own. The Bible for hundreds of years was used to justify slavery in the United States, Talmud was used to justify Israeli occupation all done by extremists. Islamophobia is irrational, because it denotes a fear of Muslim adherents in the idea that Muslims are dangerous because of their religious ideology. Again what is dangerous is the complex socio-political structures that go on. Muslim philosophers have long spoke on the dangers of interpreting religious text while untrained and unlearned in the scholarly study of Islam. A dirt poor person with no access to any form of education yet loses his/her family to a U.S. missile strike of course will be easily convinced by an extremist cleric (one who obviously hates all things western) will convince that person that terrorism (not in their eyes of course) is good. The state of affairs is beyond religious ideology as there are so many individual factors that play into why one becomes an extremist.

Sorry for the muslim assumption although doesn't "muslim" mean one who bows to the will of god.

The Quran that looks like it was written by plagiarizing the bible both contain offensive material but Imo the quran has many more offensive parts and for Sunni Muslims easy to interpret to kill.

The hadiths for Sunni Muslims are essential for them in their interpretation of the Quran with many telling of rape murder child marriage burning apostates and killing Jews,they set a precedent for all those and justification because muhammed did it first.

So the ammunitions there for the budding physical jihadist and when asked which sect of Islam is the right one muhammed reportedly replied "it will be the one like me".

Obviously " the one like me" ie muhammed burned apostates chopped heads off like the Jews of medina, raped murdered etc etc so with that knowledge I don't think its islamophobia that makes people wary of Islam.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Sorry for the muslim assumption although doesn't "muslim" mean one who bows to the will of god.

The Quran that looks like it was written by plagiarizing the bible both contain offensive material but Imo the quran has many more offensive parts and for Sunni Muslims easy to interpret to kill.

The hadiths for Sunni Muslims are essential for them in their interpretation of the Quran with many telling of rape murder child marriage burning apostates and killing Jews,they set a precedent for all those and justification because muhammed did it first.

So the ammunitions there for the budding physical jihadist and when asked which sect of Islam is the right one muhammed reportedly replied "it will be the one like me".

Obviously " the one like me" ie muhammed burned apostates chopped heads off like the Jews of medina, raped murdered etc etc so with that knowledge I don't think its islamophobia that makes people wary of Islam.

Well, I tend to think your interpretation of Islam and the Qur'an is best answered by someone who is a learned Muslim and one who is skilled in classical Arabic. That is why I'm surprised no other Muslim has chimed in on the discussion, but perhaps the reaction towards Muslims in a negative has become a norm in our society that discussions such as these (which tends to draw bigoted people) is an uninteresting dialogue. I agree that the certain graphic acts stated in the Qur'an may be used to justify religious perversion by the killing of innocent people. However, history has shown that the killings of people are not strictly isolated to Islam or its history.

In the Old Testament we can infer that God instructed Moses and his brother Joshua to slaughter the Canaanites as one website has stated in the following:

"Passages like Deuteronomy 9:4-6 (“it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is going to drive them out before you”), Deuteronomy 18:12 (“because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you”) and Leviticus 18:24-25 (“Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants”) clearly claim that God was judging the Canaanites."

See:Old Testament Mass Killings

Or Elisha through the invokation of Godf sent two bears killing forty-two children for calling him "bald headed" 2 Kings 2:23-25

Or how about David killing 200 Philistines to buy his first wife? 1 Samuel 18:25-27

"18:25 And Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, The king desireth not any dowry, but an hundred foreskins of the Philistines, to be avenged of the king's enemies. But Saul thought to make David fall by the hand of the Philistines.
18:26 And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well to be the king's son in law: and the days were not expired.
18:27 Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife."

As you can see religious men of power have done horrible things in the name of God and these actions by the few extremists can be tools to create terrorism.

 

[Corvus]

There is no room in my world view for fear driven intolerant bigotry and generalization of approx 1/5th of the human population, if you are anti muslim, you are anti human. No ally of mine.

Try walking in the other guy's boots lads. I am not all surprised many younger muslims are bitter and resentful of what they perceive to be the ruling classes of the western powers (and Russia), acting with hypocritical impunity. Making war and causing destabilization and strife. Motivated by greed, to consolidate power. For the all important flow of oil, reconstruction contracts and military supply contracts. I would be annoyed. Young men are high spirited and easily radicalized, as nature intended, to defend the family/community. Injustice leads to injustice. What goes around comes around, cause and effect.

We must be pitiless critics of ourselves first, before casting aspertions or making virtue judgments about others, be they groups or individuals.

It is all too easy to create a strawman, a scapegoat....when people fall for those narratives, millions die in horrific ways, including innocent little children and their families, that is entirely unacceptable to me. The ultimate threat.

Human rights and respect for human dignity. Without these, we are doomed. Little more than technologically advanced savages.

 

[Notanumber]

What is it that makes Islam so fragile that it cannot withstand any criticism or scrutiny?

Could it be that a man with a split personality devised it at a time when the masses were uneducated?

 

[England my lionheart]

Well, I tend to think your interpretation of Islam and the Qur'an is best answered by someone who is a learned Muslim and one who is skilled in classical Arabic. That is why I'm surprised no other Muslim has chimed in on the discussion, but perhaps the reaction towards Muslims in a negative has become a norm in our society that discussions such as these (which tends to draw bigoted people) is an uninteresting dialogue. I agree that the certain graphic acts stated in the Qur'an may be used to justify religious perversion by the killing of innocent people. However, history has shown that the killings of people are not strictly isolated to Islam or its history.

In the Old Testament we can infer that God instructed Moses and his brother Joshua to slaughter the Canaanites as one website has stated in the following:

"Passages like Deuteronomy 9:4-6 (“it is on account of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is going to drive them out before you”), Deuteronomy 18:12 (“because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you”) and Leviticus 18:24-25 (“Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants”) clearly claim that God was judging the Canaanites."

See:Old Testament Mass Killings

Or Elisha through the invokation of Godf sent two bears killing forty-two children for calling him "bald headed" 2 Kings 2:23-25

Or how about David killing 200 Philistines to buy his first wife? 1 Samuel 18:25-27

"18:25 And Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, The king desireth not any dowry, but an hundred foreskins of the Philistines, to be avenged of the king's enemies. But Saul thought to make David fall by the hand of the Philistines.
18:26 And when his servants told David these words, it pleased David well to be the king's son in law: and the days were not expired.
18:27 Wherefore David arose and went, he and his men, and slew of the Philistines two hundred men; and David brought their foreskins, and they gave them in full tale to the king, that he might be the king's son in law. And Saul gave him Michal his daughter to wife."

As you can see religious men of power have done horrible things in the name of God and these actions by the few extremists can be tools to create terrorism.

They are interesting old stories but I think theres more than a few muslims in the world who strictly adhere to its teachings and believe they are the ones like muhammed.

 

[England my lionheart]

What is it that makes Islam so fragile that it cannot withstand any criticism or scrutiny?

Could it be that a man with a split personality devised it at a time when the masses were uneducated?

There is no room in my world view for fear driven intolerant bigotry and generalization of approx 1/5th of the human population, if you are anti muslim, you are anti human. No ally of mine.

Try walking in the other guy's boots lads. I am not all surprised many younger muslims are bitter and resentful of what they perceive to be the ruling classes of the western powers (and Russia), acting with hypocritical impunity. Making war and causing destabilization and strife. Motivated by greed, to consolidate power. For the all important flow of oil, reconstruction contracts and military supply contracts. I would be annoyed. Young men are high spirited and easily radicalized, as nature intended, to defend the family/community. Injustice leads to injustice. What goes around comes around, cause and effect.

We must be pitiless critics of ourselves first, before casting aspertions or making virtue judgments about others, be they groups or individuals.

It is all too easy to create a strawman, a scapegoat....when people fall for those narratives, millions die in horrific ways, including innocent little children and their families, that is entirely unacceptable to me. The ultimate threat.

Human rights and respect for human dignity. Without these, we are doomed. Little more than technologically advanced savages.

Being wary of islam doesn't mean being anti muslim at all,being critical isn't either.

 

[Flankerl]

Muslims, or the terrorists among the Muslim populace?

Muslims destroyed every single Synagogue in Eastern Jerusalem and destroyed Jewish graveyards and then used the gravestones as building material for streets and army toilets.

Muslims. Not Muslim Terrorists.

 

[Corvus]

Muslims destroyed every single Synagogue in Eastern Jerusalem and destroyed Jewish graveyards and then used the gravestones as building material for streets and army toilets.

Muslims. Not Muslim Terrorists.

Big deal. Bad things happen. Ask any German. Why go on about it? Are you suggesting Muslims are somehow any different from the rest of us, If not, then what is your point?

 

[Corvus]

Being wary of islam doesn't mean being anti muslim at all,being critical isn't either.

Depends what you criticize, I am not interested in discussing it further, I was making a sort of rhetorical statement, so we all know were we stand.

 

[England my lionheart]

Depends what you criticize, I am not interested in discussing it further, I was making a sort of rhetorical statement, so we all know were we stand.

So would it be ok to criticise the hudood sharia punisment for apostasy? or is that out of bounds,which parts can we question or test?,what does "depends what you criticise" mean.

 

[Corvus]

So would it be ok to criticise the hudood sharia punisment for apostasy? or is that out of bounds,which parts can we question or test?,what does "depends what you criticise" mean.

It is never wrong to question acts that violate human rights, I think you know what I am saying dude.
We can compare cultures and decide one is more humane and the other is less humane. Depending on the standards we use of course, which often are set on hypocritical bias. That doesn't make our judgment any more objective. Our view on what is right and proper is a product of our subjective cultural history.

 

[Flankerl]

Big deal.

Yeah kinda.

Bad things happen. Ask any German.

Oh this is going to be good.

Why go on about it? Are you suggesting Muslims are somehow any different from the rest of us, If not, then what is your point?

Somehow you don't like me stating historical facts. I wonder why.

 

[Corvus]

Somehow you don't like me stating historical facts. I wonder why.

Don't be ridiculous infidel, I mean poster.