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Is Intellectual Honesty a Religious Virtue?

Baladas

An Págánach
The quote that came to mind immediately was:
"Do not believe anything because it is said by an authority, or if it is said to come from angels, or from Gods, or from an inspired source. Believe it only if you have explored it in your own heart and mind and body and found it to be true. Work out your own path, through diligence." - Gautama Buddha
 

Thana

Lady
It seems to me the creationist threads provide ample evidence of intellectual dishonesty on the part of many creationists. But I can understand how you yourself might not think so.

And I can understand how you yourself might think so.
Since your argument suits your ideals and my argument suits my own. It's understandable how that came to be, But really unnecessary to point out.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Do any of the world's religions explicitly uphold intellectual honesty as a virtue?
I don't think that either Jesus or John the Baptist wanted to uphold that definition.... 'Intellectual Honesty'. I think that they honestly despised it and the people who appeared as if to 'be it'
If so, please quote where they do that, or explain how and in what manner they do that.
Well, John the Baptist had some choice words for the priesthood which hid behind such spin as intellectual-honesty. He called them vipers and other insults! Jesus had a message for the common people, mostly the peasant classes, and one of his messages was 'be Honest with each other'. He would have accused the priesthood and Pharisees of pretentious 'Intellectual Honesty' which of course was no honesty at all.
Also, why they do that? That is, what value or values do they see in intellectual honesty.
None at all. Jesus's and John's messages were mostly for the peasant and lowest classes. I expect that Jesus would have laughed at the definition because as any means of communicating Honesty it is stupid. As soon as simple 'honesty' is embellished to 'Intellectual Honesty' it becomes a pretension, such as the Pharisees tried to mess with in their arguments and debates with Jesus.

There is no need for Honesty to have any embellishment...... it stands alone, just as I think Jesus would have wanted.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
Intellectual honesty is not easy. But 1 Corinthians 14:24,25 relates it as a Christian virtue. And James 1:22-26 relates it as a must.

"But if you are all prophesying (speaking God's thoughts) and an unbeliever or an ordinary person comes in, he will be reproved and closely examined by them all. The secrets of his heart then become evident, so that he will fall facedown and worship God, declaring: 'Go is really among you.'" - 1 Cor 14:24,25

"However, become doers of the word and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, this one is like a man looking at his own face in a mirror. For he looks at himself, and he goes away and immediately forgets what sort of person he is. But the one who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and continues in it has become, not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work; and he will be happy in what he does. If any man thinks he is a worshipper of God (or "is religious.") but does not keep a tight rein on (or "does not bridle.") his tongue, he is decieving his own heart, and his worship is futile." - James 1:22-26
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Sure, sure. We can go with that. Let's just call me ignorant and pretend he didn't just generalize the crap out of a complex issue and then provided it as evidence of Theists being intellectually dishonest.

There is no need to pretend.

I did not.

Have you noticed that you are the one introducing "theists" there? That is really interesting.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I understand that there are people who are intellectually dishonest about Evolution/Creationism. But it's not rampant as you've said,

It actually is, to the point of challenging the worst expectations of hardcore pessimists.


In fact I've only seen it a few times.

That is almost unbelievable.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I have as much evidence for my claims as all of you do.
Which is none, by the way. That was kind of my initial point.

Refrain from giving witness about my evidence in the future, if you may.

I am perfectly capable of speaking about my own evidence, and I have the advantage of knowing something about it to boot.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
And I can understand how you yourself might think so.
Since your argument suits your ideals and my argument suits my own. It's understandable how that came to be, But really unnecessary to point out.

Remain on this thread then. You will learn from it.
 

Thana

Lady
Refrain from giving witness about my evidence in the future, if you may.

I am perfectly capable of speaking about my own evidence, and I have the advantage of knowing something about it to boot.

Then why have you refrained from providing evidence if you have it?
I assumed you didn't have any non-anecdotal evidence, But if you do then please feel free to share it.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
I did not such thing. There is such evidence by the boatload in the area I directed you to.

Did you look for it there?
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
Ah, so in other words, no you do not have non-anecdotal evidence.
I guess the first obvious point of call here in terms of evidence of organised deception, intellectual dishonesty on a grand scale would be to suggest that you look up 'The Wedge Strategy'.
 

Thana

Lady
I guess the first obvious point of call here in terms of evidence of organised deception, intellectual dishonesty on a grand scale would be to suggest that you look up 'The Wedge Strategy'.

That doesn't really look like intellectual dishonesty, more like fundamentalism.
But that's only from a quick glance, I'll look into it a bit more.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I don't think that either Jesus or John the Baptist wanted to uphold that definition.... 'Intellectual Honesty'. I think that they honestly despised it and the people who appeared as if to 'be it'

Well, John the Baptist had some choice words for the priesthood which hid behind such spin as intellectual-honesty. He called them vipers and other insults! Jesus had a message for the common people, mostly the peasant classes, and one of his messages was 'be Honest with each other'. He would have accused the priesthood and Pharisees of pretentious 'Intellectual Honesty' which of course was no honesty at all.

None at all. Jesus's and John's messages were mostly for the peasant and lowest classes. I expect that Jesus would have laughed at the definition because as any means of communicating Honesty it is stupid. As soon as simple 'honesty' is embellished to 'Intellectual Honesty' it becomes a pretension, such as the Pharisees tried to mess with in their arguments and debates with Jesus.

There is no need for Honesty to have any embellishment...... it stands alone, just as I think Jesus would have wanted.

Why not simply and honestly admit that your religion does not explicitly value intellectual honesty, if that's the case? Why instead attack intellectual honesty as "pretentious"?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The quote that came to mind immediately was:
"Do not believe anything because it is said by an authority, or if it is said to come from angels, or from Gods, or from an inspired source. Believe it only if you have explored it in your own heart and mind and body and found it to be true. Work out your own path, through diligence." - Gautama Buddha

I thought of that passage too, at first. And while I've always liked and admired that passage, I'm not sure it explicitly addresses the issue of intellectual honesty per se. Seems it's more about not taking authority at face value and looking for evidence instead. Very closely related, in my opinion, to intellectual honesty, in so far as it treats one aspect of it.
 
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