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Is Hamas Being Delusional?

Discussion in 'Middle Eastern Politics' started by gnostic, Aug 28, 2014.

  1. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    I am jewish.

    Palestine as you said was coined by the romans. It means Phillistines whom have nothing to do with the present day arabs living in judea and samaria.

    "Palestine" was part of the british empire. Before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire.

    4/5ths of the actual british palestine is Jordan. Therefore, the arabs in judea and samaria already have a state in Jordan.

    Below is a summary of the conflict.

    [youtube]8EDW88CBo-8[/youtube]

    [youtube]yfN2IvnIA4M[/youtube]

    Israel also has about 1.5 million Israel arab citizens whom have full rights. Their standard of living is greater than any arab country.
     
  2. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    It's not a territorial dispute it's a religious dispute.

    The arab side wants the jewish side DEAD because they exist there.
     
  3. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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  4. Leftimies

    Leftimies Dwelling in the Principle

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    Hamas has always been, is and always will be a highly delusional force. Why so many continue to support their agenda is beyond the limits of my understanding.
     
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  5. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    That makes two of us.

    Also why some people believe that Israel should give away more of the little land it has for some vague promises of peace that never come to fruition is beyond my understanding as well.

    Especially when these groups have made it clear they want to destroy all of Israel and kill all the jews make it even more absurd.
     
  6. Leftimies

    Leftimies Dwelling in the Principle

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    I have absolutely no false hope that Hamas would ever agree to the existence of Israel. Their insistence to use the word "occupation" reflects this: they consider all of Israel to be 'Palestine', jews just happen to 'occupy' it. And their fight against this so-called 'occupation' means, quite frankly, that they will never allow for its existence.

    Which is ludicrous, in every sense of the world.
     
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  7. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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  8. Phil25

    Phil25 Active Member

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    The problem its not going to work in reality. How do you expect that people who hated each other for more than a century, to suddenly live together? How do you expect that Islamists and/or Extremeist Jews will not blow Synagogues and/or Mosques up? And why do you think that the above wouldnt result in very violent riots. Something that works in West doesnt necessarily have to work in ME.
     
    #188 Phil25, Sep 1, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  9. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Just a reminder that Israel was established by a 2/3 vote in the U.N. to be a Jewish state. Secondly, Israel has roughly 1 & 1/2 million Palestinians living inside of its boundaries, and we certainly don't see a line of them leaving to go live in any other M.E. country. Thirdly, whether Israel should have been re-created is a moot point in real terms since it exists, and to say it shouldn't have been done can also be argued against pretty much any country in the world since people and boundaries have both moved historically. If Israel shouldn't exist, should the U.S., which was taken over by Europeans by force and even genocide, also not exist?

    The real issue is where does Israel and the neighboring countries go from here? There are chances for peace, but it's going to take each country there a willingness to do as such, and one or even a small handful of countries cannot do it without the others.

    And the religions involved must take the same position. Right now, that's not possible with groups like Hamas, who simply will not accept a Jewish or Christian country in their midst because they consider it all Islamic land.

    Is Hamas "delusional"? Not really. Their religious leaders read the Qur'an and Hadith and take them very seriously, and their particular path reflects that. Some religiously-oriented westerners may have a hard time understanding this because they're operating from a different paradigm, especially since religious fundamentalism tends to be no where near as strong in the west, although it certainly can be found here.

    Right now, the Islamic fundamentalists are growing in strength, and they threaten not only the entire region, they threaten the west as well. The fight against Hamas is pretty much the same as the fight against ISIS, ISIL, and numerous other groups like them. They're not all one and the same, but their general approach and what it's based on is very similar.
     
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  10. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Your statement proves you have not done your homework. Plus you have a sick, a really sick view of Muslims that comes no doubt from an assumption that Satan is controlling them. Even if that is not the case you still have made a terrible sweeping generalization.

    If Hamas puts down its weapons, then the Israelis will relax a little more and the Zionists who believe in a two state solution will be able to form an overwhelming alliance (against the Zionists who don't) in the Knesset. Such an alliance can force Gaza and the West Bank to come to terms. Unfortunately this could result in a delay in the return of Jesus Christ or even a false messiah. Troubling!
     
    #190 Brickjectivity, Sep 1, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
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  11. Smart_Guy

    Smart_Guy ...
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    A statement very well said.
     
  12. MattersOfTheHeart

    MattersOfTheHeart Active Member

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    But uptil the 19 century all three groups did live in somewhat peace in that particular area.
    It was about 85% Muslim 10% Christian 5% Jewish. Only until Jewish groups decided to want more land titlement did real problems surface.

    Good site is
    A Synopsis of the Israel/Palestine Conflict
    If Americans Knew - What every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine
     
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  13. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    What is your evidence that the Romans named the land as Palestine for going against God's will and then who were the Palestinians, Did the Roman invent the Palestinian people that lives till our days.

    Your propaganda youtubes are silly ones, Israel came to Palestine by Britain and by their support they occupied the land from the native people.

    Jews came from different part of the world to stay in Palestine,from Russia, Poland, German ...etc

    Now because there were some Jews that lived in Palestine before 2000 years ago then every Jew of today has the right to live in Palestine and all Palestinians have to find some other place to live in.

    Peace will never be achieved and wars will go on year after year and at one point of time an unavoidable disaster will happen.
     
  14. Phil25

    Phil25 Active Member

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    #194 Phil25, Sep 1, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2014
  15. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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  16. MattersOfTheHeart

    MattersOfTheHeart Active Member

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    I don't believe they bought the acreage reported in the new today? What are you referring to?

    Can you cite some evidence that all the land they have has been legal transactions? Most of the international community admits that perhaps not all land obtained by Israel is legal.
     
  17. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    You wrote about the 19th century i answered about the 19th century.

    Now you are going to switch to today?
     
  18. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

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    When Israel became a state they bought the land.

    Arab landowners overcharged them for land that was worthless.

    Jews came in and through their hard work changed the worthless land to properous land.

    In the War Of Independence, Israel told the arab villages that all they had to do was remain netural and Israel would leave them alone. If the arab villages decided to attack them, then they attacked back.

    The day Israel decleraed indepedence five arab countries waged war on this tiny country. However, Israel had G-D on it's side and won.

    In 1967 Egypt's Nassar vowed to destroy all of Israel and had a trip buildup as well as Syria. Israel asked Jordan not to enter the war.

    Israel did a preemptive strike after after Nassar vowed to destroy all of Israel. Jordan then entered the war.

    Jordan lost the west bank to Israel. Therefore the arabs that were living there were jordanian.

    In fact 4/5ths of the orginial british palestine was in transjordan which became jordan.

    Therefore the arabs living in the west bank already have their palestinian state. It's called Jordan.
     
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  19. FearGod

    FearGod Freedom Of Mind

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    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]

    People lived in Palestine long before 2000 years ago, but no one can fix stupidity.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Aha, there were no Palestinians, no Jews, no Christians,no shepherds.
    Are you talking about the south pole.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    [/FONT]


    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Yes it was discovered by [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Christopher Columbus.:facepalm:[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    The south pole. :yes:
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    Even the crusaders found no body,no water,no sheep in Palestine.
    Jesus was a myth. :facepalm:

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    [/FONT]


    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Where the people of Palestine had Gone, did a comet hit Palestine.

    [youtube]fl0USo6q1js[/youtube]
    Deep Impact The Comet Hits Earth - YouTube

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
    [/FONT]


    The truth is here

    [youtube]n3bxj1uvDXU[/youtube]
    The History of Palestine - YouTube
     
  20. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    A video that just includes only certain information simply is propaganda. It would be like showing certain segments of a soccer game whereas all the good plays of the losing team are shown while ignoring the other good and bad plays.
     
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