Is gullibility a virtue in Christianity?

[lukethethird]

To anybody reading this, as a Christian being gullible can sometimes cause blowback which we can always blame on Satan leaving us feeling persecuted and therefore Christian like.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

In John 20:29, Jesus supposedly states "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

In other words, this is a verse praising gullibility as a virtue. It is, according to Christianity, apparently virtuous to believe extraordinary claims that are unsupported. Why is this the case? I find it very strange, especially considering the fact that many Christians are just as skeptical as anyone else about everything, except the claims of their religion.

For instance, if I told you that there was, say, a plane crash in your neighborhood, most of you probably wouldn't believe me, at least not without first checking the evidence and *seeing* for yourself. Yet, when a less believable claim is made about a guy who, 2000 years ago, supposedly died and became alive again three days later, with the only evidence to support this claim being the contradictory reports of documents written by anonymous authors decades or more after the alleged events took place, these same Christians who are skeptical about everything else will believe that these events took place. Do you see the inconsistency? Why do so many Christians believe that gullibility is a virtue when it comes to believing the claims of their religion, yet remain skeptical about much more believable claims? Also, why should gullibility be a virtue at all? Gullibility, or "faith" in the absence of evidence is useless, and helps no one. If anything, it should be considered a "vice" and not a virtue.

Tell you what....ask Isaac Newton why he did, when you meet him one day after you're both resurrected.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Tell you what....ask Isaac Newton why he did, when you meet him one day after you're both resurrected.

Really? That's the best you've got? A really smart guy happened to be a Christian, so Christianity must be true? Lol

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Really? That's the best you've got? A really smart guy happened to be a Christian, so Christianity must be true? Lol

No, I said you'll find out why he did, after you both are resurrected.

You know, from his study of the Scriptures he didn't agree with the religion of his day, but he found the Bible to be accurate. And today, there are even more Biblical accounts verified by archaeology than he had available in his day!

IOW, we have even more reason to trust the Scriptures!

 

[nPeace]

From one source: “...although wives were included among a man’s possessions, they were not reckoned as property. In Exodus 20:17 the commandment against coveting includes the wife as part of the household, along with slave, ox, and donkey ...

Are you serious sojourner... or are you just playing?
You take a scripture that uses the pronoun 'your' to claim that by saying 'your wife', is treating her as a piece of property? So when the Bible says...
(Genesis 12:1) . . .And Jehovah said to Aʹbram: “Go out from your land and away from your relatives and from the house of your father to the land that I will show you.
It is saying that the father, and relatives are pieces of property?
This has left me bewildered, honestly.

nonetheless, the Bible was written and compiled by males who had no special interest in women’s roles. They focused principally on the male aspects of life ... in which women were not directly involved or to which they contributed only minimally. In addition, Israel’s laws were addressed only to men. The domain of a woman’s activities was the household, where she exercised authority in her role as mother.” (King, Stager; Life In Biblical Israel, 2001, Westminster John Knox press, Louisville; p. 49) (emphases mine)

“ ... However, the legal system of the patriarchal society placed women at a distinct disadvantage. Before marriage, a woman was subject to her father; in his absence, to an older brother; and after marriage, to her husband. The laws of inheritance worked to her detriment, too ... only males could inherit property ...”
Ibid. p. 50

What? So you go and dig up a source that you think is credible, which only make false statements?
These statements are all false.
I have provided scriptures showing them to be false. I suggest you look over those scriptures, because it appears you are not really familiar with the contents of the Bible.

“The famous description of the ‘ideal wife’ in Proverbs (31:10-29) concerns the variety of women’s roles in the household, especially their economic role. It is clear, however, that this litany applies only to elite, noble women.” Ibid. p. 51 (emphases mine)

False. The text describes a good wife.
Some details on why you think otherwise might be helpful.
Even so... what does a description of good wife have to do with equality?

“By definition, a widow ... was outside the normal social structure of the community and could therefore be easily victimized and quickly reduced to destitution.” Ibid. p. 53

What?
This is getting me tired. You are merely quoting someone, who makes statements of which you probably don't even know of any scriptures to support what is said.

This is not what we started out with. If you don't know what the Bible says, please don't resort to sources that can't even back up one statement it makes. That's no different to you making statements for which you can't back up.

False. Not supported.

“ ... a wealth of later documentation, suggest that women married young, while still in their teens, sometimes early teens, in fact; men waited until well into their twenties or even early thirties before marrying.” Ibid. p. 37

If these examples don’t paint a picture of biblical inequality, I don’t know what does. This was the culture of the biblical writers.


Asked an answered. It’s simply a tax designation.

False. Not supported.

We have to look a little deeper than Strong’s.

“In the conception of the firmament as a solid substance (cf. Job 26:11) there is a distinct reminiscence of the Babylonian myth, according to which the sun-god Marduk split the slain chaos monster in two and used on half of the carcass as a firmament, the other half as the earth ... Seas embraces fore than the waters upon the face of the earth; it includes also the (supposed) subterranean waters upon which the earth was believed to rest (cf. Ps. 24:2), to which P refers in 7:11 and the circumferential ocean (cf. Ps. 139:9), upon which the pillars of the firmament (cf. Job 26:11) stood.” (Simpson; The Interpreter’s Bible; 1952, Abington Press, ; Nashville, pp. 472,473) (emphasis mine)

“The Israelites shared much of the world view of ancient Mesopotamia. Much of the material contained in the primeval epics in Genesis is borrowed from other ancient Near Easten cultures.” (Matthews, Moyer; The Old Testament: Text And Context; 1997, Hendrickson Publishers, Inc., Peabody, MA, p. 44)

“The Genesis accounts of the creation utilize some of this Mesopotamian material as well as other epics composed in ancient Egypt.” (Ibid. p. 47)

See this site: https://www.theopedia.com/raqiya

None of this is proven.
These are merely opinionated views.
I have watched fiction movies, and read fiction books about life, and birth, and death. It doesn't mean that every book written about life, birth, and death, are fiction.

This simply doesn’t address the issue. The Hebrews coming into the Promised Land and carving out a separate culture for themselves is “known.” The size of David’s army is “known.” Neither is corroborated by the archaeological record. The Bible is WRONG on all these counts.

And so are you.

Your opinions and claims has no basis at all. They are merely claims and opinions. All I can do is note them.
It seem too you have strayed far off topic.

 

[sojourner]

Are you serious sojourner... or are you just playing?
You take a scripture that uses the pronoun 'your' to claim that by saying 'your wife', is treating her as a piece of property? So when the Bible says...
(Genesis 12:1) . . .And Jehovah said to Aʹbram: “Go out from your land and away from your relatives and from the house of your father to the land that I will show you.
It is saying that the father, and relatives are pieces of property?
This has left me bewildered, honestly.


What? So you go and dig up a source that you think is credible, which only make false statements?
These statements are all false.
I have provided scriptures showing them to be false. I suggest you look over those scriptures, because it appears you are not really familiar with the contents of the Bible.


False. The text describes a good wife.
Some details on why you think otherwise might be helpful.
Even so... what does a description of good wife have to do with equality?


What?
This is getting me tired. You are merely quoting someone, who makes statements of which you probably don't even know of any scriptures to support what is said.

This is not what we started out with. If you don't know what the Bible says, please don't resort to sources that can't even back up one statement it makes. That's no different to you making statements for which you can't back up.

False. Not supported.


False. Not supported.



None of this is proven.
These are merely opinionated views.
I have watched fiction movies, and read fiction books about life, and birth, and death. It doesn't mean that every book written about life, birth, and death, are fiction.


Your opinions and claims has no basis at all. They are merely claims and opinions. All I can do is note them.
It seem too you have strayed far off topic.

You’re either delusional, trying to be funny, or willfully ignorant. These quotations are all taken from scholars who are at the top of their respective fields. What they say is reliable. If you don’t get it, I can’t help you. But I’d suggest that you leave the Bible to the experts, if this is your bona fide response to scholarship. Your response is ridiculous (although, judging by your previous responses, I can’t say I’m surprised). I’m done wasting my time on your infantile nonsense.

 

[nPeace]

You’re either delusional, trying to be funny, or willfully ignorant. These quotations are all taken from scholars who are at the top of their respective fields. What they say is reliable. If you don’t get it, I can’t help you. But I’d suggest that you leave the Bible to the experts, if this is your bona fide response to scholarship. Your response is ridiculous (although, judging by your previous responses, I can’t say I’m surprised). I’m done wasting my time on your infantile nonsense.

(Acts 4:13) Now when they saw the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and ordinary men, they were astonished. And they began to realize that they had been with Jesus.

(Matthew 11:25) At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.

(1 Corinthians 1:26, 27) For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, not many powerful, not many of noble birth, but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame;

(John 7:15) And the Jews were astonished, saying: “How does this man have such a knowledge of the Scriptures when he has not studied at the schools?”

 

[Rational Agnostic]

No, I said you'll find out why he did, after you both are resurrected.

You know, from his study of the Scriptures he didn't agree with the religion of his day, but he found the Bible to be accurate.

So what? Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and Bertrand Russell were also geniuses in mathematics and physics (Einstein discovered where Newton's physics went wrong in fact), and all of them studied the bible and determined it to be inaccurate, since none of them were Christians. Anyway, appeal to the beliefs of intellectual authorities doesn't count for much, but the point is that many intelligent people also found the bible to be untrustworthy as well.

 

[sojourner]

(Acts 4:13) Now when they saw the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and ordinary men, they were astonished. And they began to realize that they had been with Jesus.

(Matthew 11:25) At that time Jesus said in response: “I publicly praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intellectual ones and have revealed them to young children.

(1 Corinthians 1:26, 27) For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, not many powerful, not many of noble birth, but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame;

(John 7:15) And the Jews were astonished, saying: “How does this man have such a knowledge of the Scriptures when he has not studied at the schools?”

Yawn.

You’re not a mythic member of Jesus’ Elite. Matthew 25 is not an authentic quote of Jesus, but a later interpolation. 2 Cor. isn’t talking about biblical scholarship.

 

[nPeace]

Yawn.

You’re not a mythic member of Jesus’ Elite. Matthew 25 is not an authentic quote of Jesus, but a later interpolation. 2 Cor. isn’t talking about biblical scholarship.

"God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame;"
That's all I have to say, and I am not applying this to scholars.
wait! I thought you were done wasting time!?

 

[sojourner]

"God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame;"
That's all I have to say, and I am not applying this to scholars.
wait! I thought you were done wasting time!?

The wise ones are those who have provided a Bible for us, as well as a way to read it.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

So what? Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and Bertrand Russell were also geniuses in mathematics and physics (Einstein discovered where Newton's physics went wrong in fact), and all of them studied the bible and determined it to be inaccurate, since none of them were Christians. Anyway, appeal to the beliefs of intellectual authorities doesn't count for much, but the point is that many intelligent people also found the bible to be untrustworthy as well.

Show me where a source says Einstein, Hawking, and Russell studied the Bible. They may have read it. But studied it? I've never come across that anywhere.

(I see you didn't include yourself.)

Anyway, appeal to the beliefs of intellectual authorities doesn't count for much....

Don't you, respecting methodological naturalism / organic evolution?

And you appeal to skeptical authorities respecting the Bible too, because you haven't studied it yourself. Have you even read it once? To get a good overall view of it, JW's helped me In my study of it. (Before them, I was heading to atheism.)

 

[sojourner]

Show me where a source says Einstein, Hawking, and Russell studied the Bible. They may have read it. But studied it? I've never come across that anywhere.

(I see you didn't include yourself.)


Don't you, respecting methodological naturalism / organic evolution?

And you appeal to skeptical authorities respecting the Bible too, because you haven't studied it yourself. Have you even read it once? To get a good overall view of it, JW's helped me In my study of it. (Before them, I was heading to atheism.)

Noted bible scholars — those who undertake critical analyses of the texts — find many inaccuracies and contradictions in the texts. They are people whose lives are consumed with studying the texts in peer-reviewed formats. I don’t know any who disrespect the texts; they just seeit for what it is.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Show me where a source says Einstein, Hawking, and Russell studied the Bible. They may have read it. But studied it? I've never come across that anywhere.

(I see you didn't include yourself.)


Don't you, respecting methodological naturalism / organic evolution?

And you appeal to skeptical authorities respecting the Bible too, because you haven't studied it yourself. Have you even read it once? To get a good overall view of it, JW's helped me In my study of it. (Before them, I was heading to atheism.)

Well, of course one would have to define what is meant by "study" I suppose. Russell read it thoroughly, and I would expect that he analyzed enough to constitute "studying" given that he was an analytical person in general and contributed greatly to logic and pure math. He also wrote an essay entitled "Why I am not a Christian" where he discusses the bible and the claims of Christianity, indicating that he had analyzed the bible and the claims of Christianity.

As for the questions regarding myself, I don't just take scientific authorities' word for it; I analyze their claims and the evidence and reasoning that they present is strong enough for me to accept their conclusions. So it is not a blind appeal to authority. As far as the bible goes, I have read around 80-85% of it, but no, I have not read every word. I don't think that's relevant.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Noted bible scholars — those who undertake critical analyses of the texts — find many inaccuracies and contradictions in the texts. They are people whose lives are consumed with studying the texts in peer-reviewed formats. I don’t know any who disrespect the texts; they just seeit for what it is.

Well, of course one would have to define what is meant by "study" I suppose. Russell read it thoroughly, and I would expect that he analyzed enough to constitute "studying" given that he was an analytical person in general and contributed greatly to logic and pure math. He also wrote an essay entitled "Why I am not a Christian" where he discusses the bible and the claims of Christianity, indicating that he had analyzed the bible and the claims of Christianity.

As for the questions regarding myself, I don't just take scientific authorities' word for it; I analyze their claims and the evidence and reasoning that they present is strong enough for me to accept their conclusions. So it is not a blind appeal to authority. As far as the bible goes, I have read around 80-85% of it, but no, I have not read every word. I don't think that's relevant.

Well, I appreciate your honesty. I study the Bible regularly and Fortunately, have found help to understand it, and I'm still learning! As Luke 10:21 says, it's the Father (Jehovah, Jesus' God) that gives understanding...not even Jesus!

Wish you the best.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well, I appreciate your honesty. I study the Bible regularly and Fortunately, have found help to understand it, and I'm still learning! As Luke 10:21 says, it's the Father (Jehovah, Jesus' God) that gives understanding...not even Jesus!

Wish you the best.

If you studied it seriously you should have found some rather serious errors by now.

 

[sojourner]

Well, I appreciate your honesty. I study the Bible regularly and Fortunately, have found help to understand it, and I'm still learning! As Luke 10:21 says, it's the Father (Jehovah, Jesus' God) that gives understanding...not even Jesus!

Wish you the best.

If you had studied seriously, you would understand that the verse you quoted isn’t an authentic Jesus quote, but a later interpolation. And it has nothing to do with understanding scripture.

 

[Muffled]

I believe we don't consider it gullibility but a reliance on a God who has proven Himself over and over.

 

[Muffled]

Christianity does not want people who critically think and determine for themselves so it is designed to seek out people who have demonstrated that they possess a low standard of believability.

What better way to go about catering to that gullibility by employing simple manipulation in the form of "deep" platitudes and parables.

I believe we are fine with people who think critically but not with people who think negatively ie the worst scenario always must be the true one.

 

[Muffled]

It’s an enormous asset to be able to distinguish truth from falsehood and requires an unbiased and open mind and heart.

Only little reflection is needed to see the power of God behind these Great Beings Who were opposed, tortured, imprisoned, crucified and Their followers beheaded yet Their Cause conquered the minds and hearts of billions all over the world thousands of years after Their death,

The true resurrection is that They live on in the hearts and lives of men even today and Their teaching of love, goodwill and charity to all are eternal.

I believe what you call the true resurrection is only fanciful thinking designed to ignore the true resurrection.