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Featured Is gullibility a virtue in Christianity?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Sep 24, 2018.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the reason morals are so low today is because man creates them using his poor judgment. Please name one high moral standard that is not held as a virtue in the Bible.

    Unfortunately, some translations have done an injustice with Exodus 20:13. The word there is properly translated murder, not kill.
    Exodus 20:13 Interlinear: 'Thou dost not murder.
    We understand that murder carries a greater meaning than kill.
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Murder is a legal term for a very specific kind of killing. I wouldn’t say it’s “greater,” just more tightly-defined. Murder is illegal. Killing may not be.
     
  3. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. That's what I meant. more tightly-defined == greater meaning. :D
     
  4. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    Humility, Honor, Love, Sacrifice, Truth, Compassion, Generosity, and wisdom values and moral beliefs found in non-Christian cultures. Virtues in Non-Abrahamic religions. Morals and virtues are formed by men outside of the bible.
     
  5. Wild Fox

    Wild Fox Well-Known Member

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    The same as to all life. What you call weeds which is used a negative reference are still life struggling to live.
     
  6. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    You mentioned all found in the Bible, and all barely alive with the few God fearing people found in societies today, and none promoted by this world that you rightly described as a mess, because of this very reason - lacking morals.
    Where sacrifice fits in there is odd though, because sacrificing isn't virtuous in all cases, and then there is wisdom, which isn't true wisdom, depending on the angle we are looking at it from. [​IMG]
     
  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I don't know where you get this claim from. You will find that some of the most moral countries in the world today also happen to be some of the most atheistic countries. The idea that one has to believe in an invisible friend to be moral has been refuted many times over.
     
  8. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    My question is how one goes about extending love
    to every bacteria-germ. Sounds kind of ridiculous
    and awful diffuse.

    My doubet-major BS degree included biology, I am
    not insensitive to the nature of life.

    I am awed by it, but "love" in this connection does
    not compute for me.
     
  9. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    The position that women do not embody shame, and that women are spiritual and social equals to men.
     
  10. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I think “love” more in terms of honoring the life inherent and the organism for what it is. I think the illusion is that we will, one day, either eradicate all such organisms, or become immune to them.
     
  11. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    If someone has that illusion.

    Anyway, never mind, it is kind of playing semantics.

    I dont, btw, get it how any Christian can read that
    "god" made things, declared them to be good, but
    then decide they know better, and "hate" snakes,
    etc.
     
  12. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I don’t think God “hates snakes.” It’s a metaphor. The serpent represents wisdom. It’s also an etiological story — “why things are the way they are.”
    “Daddy, why do snakes not have legs, and why do they bite us?”
    “Well, son, let me tell you a story...”
     
  13. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    MATBE it is a metaphor. A lot of people think it really
    happened just as written. Time was,they'd have pulled out
    your eyeballs and toasted your feet for a hint that you
    did not take it literally.

    I dont think that "god" hates snakes either.

    A lot of people hate snakes*. Re read what I wrote!!

    I am curious how they figure it, if god said the things
    are good.

    *or many many other living things
     
  14. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    I would hope we’ve grown some intellectually since then.

    I dunno... I don’t get the “logic.”
     
  15. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Um, your phraseologizing is a bit off.

    "I would have hoped"

    Coz it sure has not happened in the depths of
    creolnad. Which is that vast expanse from the Atlantic
    to the Pacific, in the USA.

    55% so wiki claims, believe they were real people.
     
  16. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I like this.
    According to the Bible, from the beginning of their creation, women were divinely bestowed dignity, value, and equality - in every way.
    Genesis 2:18 Then Jehovah God said: “It is not good for the man to continue to be alone. I am going to make a helper for him, as a complement of him.
    Exodus 23:26 The women in your land will not suffer a miscarriage or be barren, and I will give you a full life span.
    1 Corinthians 11:11, 12
    11Besides, in connection with the Lord, neither is woman separate from man nor is man separate from woman. 12For just as the woman is from the man, so also the man is through the woman; but all things are from God.
    Numbers 36:1-13; Deuteronomy 31:9-13; Joshua 8:34, 35; Psalm 68:11; Psalm 148:12, 13;

    They were also treated this way.
    Genesis 24:54-61; Exodus 2:15-17; Exodus 15:20, 21; Exodus 35:22, 25, 26, 29; John 11:5; Luke 8:1-3; John 19:25-27; Acts 1:12-14; Acts 16:13-15; Romans 16:1-16; Philippians 4:2, 3; 1 Timothy 5:1-16;
    1 Peter 3:7 You husbands, in the same way, continue dwelling with them according to knowledge. Assign them honor as to a weaker vessel, the feminine one, since they are also heirs with you of the undeserved favor of life, in order for your prayers not to be hindered.

    How is this a moral in this world, where women - women - that is... women, are fighting for their right to bare their breast in public, because they should be equal to men, among other things?

    Women's rights - Wikipedia
    Women's rights are the rights and entitlements claimed for women and girls worldwide, and formed the basis for the women's rights movement in the nineteenth century and feminist movement during the 20th century. In some countries, these rights are institutionalized or supported by law, local custom, and behavior, whereas in others they are ignored and suppressed. They differ from broader notions of human rights through claims of an inherent historical and traditional bias against the exercise of rights by women and girls, in favor of men and boys.

    Issues commonly associated with notions of women's rights include the right: to bodily integrity and autonomy; to be free from sexual violence; to vote; to hold public office; to enter into legal contracts; to have equal rights in family law; to work; to fair wages or equal pay; to have reproductive rights; to own property; to education.


    Where is it?
    Women's Human Rights and Gender Equality | Global Fund for Women
    Women’s rights are the fundamental human rights that were enshrined by the United Nations for every human being on the planet nearly 70 years ago. These rights include the right to live free from violence, slavery, and discrimination; to be educated; to own property; to vote; and to earn a fair and equal wage.

    As the now-famous saying goes, “women’s rights are human rights.” That is to say, women are entitled to all of these rights. Yet almost everywhere around the world, women and girls are still denied them, often simply because of their gender.


    How far have women’s rights advanced in a century?
    This year marks the centenary of women gaining the right to vote in Great Britain and Ireland. But while the feminist movement has made monumental strides since, the campaign for equality still continues today.

    I hope that's not your best man, because that's a huge failing.
    ...but then, what could you possibly find that would prove my statement wrong? [​IMG]
     
  17. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    No, but it’s growing less dense, I believe.
     
  18. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    Well, your post asked about the Bible. According to biblical precedent (which came from the cultures that produced it), women could not own property, they could not become religious scholars, they were not allowed to study Torah, they were not allowed to be the head of family, they could not worship in the Temple proper. Women’s righteousness came through their husbands — not by their own merits. If a woman could not get pregnant, there was something spiritually wrong with her — it was never the man’s fault for being impotent. Additionally, in that culture, women embodied shame, men embodied honor. And that sentiment is found in several places in the Bible, such as (and I know you’ll disagree with me, but here it is anyway, because it’s the truth) the injunction in Leviticus against homosexual acts. Notice, for example, that the OT never speaks out against lesbianism, because women are already inherently shameful. Only male acts are spoken out against. As for your Genesis reference, please note that the woman was taken out of man. That assumes an inherent subordination.

    No, I’m afraid I have found one moral stance that does not appear in at least the OT. And, if it’s not universally accepted today, at least it’s recognized in most civilized societies.
     
  19. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I know some don't like to read the scriptures, but I encourage you to read both those I quoted, and those I didn't, because they all deny what you claim... Unless you prefer I quote them for you. I can do that if you want. No problem. Just let me know.
    I don't deny something without having a reference to support what I am denying, so perhaps you should put up a quote, rather than just make statements with no support, because then I don't know where you got it from, or if it's just your view.

    That one on lesbianism seems to me a foul [​IMG] since immortality, in the Bible covers all sexual sins, and unclean practice, so pulling out a specific act, just looks like an attempt to pull a fast one. ;) So no, you got caught trying to cheat. :D

    Anyway fornication covers that. 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10
    However, there is specific mention nonetheless.
    Romans 1:
    26That is why God gave them over to uncontrolled sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; 27likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error.

    The other unclean practices are found here... [and other places]
    Leviticus 18:22-30

    22 “‘You must not lie down with a male in the same way that you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable act. 23 “‘A man must not have sexual intercourse with an animal to become unclean by it; nor should a woman offer herself to an animal to have intercourse with it. It is a violation of what is natural. 24 “‘Do not make yourselves unclean by any of these things, for it is by all these things that the nations that I am driving out from before you have made themselves unclean. 25 Therefore, the land is unclean, and I will bring punishment on it for its error, and the land will vomit its inhabitants out. 26 But you yourselves must keep my statutes and my judicial decisions, and you must not do any of these detestable things, whether a native or a foreigner who is residing among you. 27 For all these detestable things were done by the men who lived in the land before you, and now the land is unclean. 28 Then the land will not have to vomit you out for defiling it in the same way that it will vomit out the nations that were before you. 29 If anyone does any of these detestable things, all those doing them must be cut off from among their people. 30 You must keep your obligation to me by not practicing any of the detestable customs that were carried on before you, so that you do not make yourselves unclean by them. I am Jehovah your God.’”

    It seems you didn't read 1 Corinthians 11:11, 12, even though I quoted it.
    So it appears that was your best. It's a flop. [​IMG]

    Oh, by the way, could you explain how it is morally right that a woman be head of the home if married?
    ...and you have not addressed the fact that women today are still fighting for their rights, without success.
     
  20. sojourner

    sojourner Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006

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    This failed to address my post with the exception of this small piece:
    Why should it not be morally right that a woman be head of household, if married? Women are equal to men in all ways. Oh! Unless you’re being held hostage to some moral standard prevalent in the Bible, but certainly not applicable today.
     
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