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Is Goetia dangerous??

DanielR

Active Member
Yes, is it, lol?

I want to start practicing magic now, Goetia sounds good and fascinating and fits well with Qliphotic Kabbala but is it dangerous?

I know this may be a naive question, but should I better stick to Chaos Magic? (Not that I think chaos magic is inferior but probably a bit safer (no?)).
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
safer? No. Yes it's ''dangerous'' if your doing it seriously. Chances it won't be serious, so no, as a hobby or whatever, it's fine, I guess. I don't do Goetia
 

vaguelyhumanoid

Active Member
I wouldn't screw around with goetia myself, but then again I'm the type to keep it low-key with mystical practices for mental health reasons anyways.
 

DanielR

Active Member
I suffer from depression, I'm not sure if in that case it's safe to conjure demons :D

I better stay away from it, though it sounds intriguing
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
It has a reputation for being dangerous, and is claimed to be dangerous. Whether or not this has any truth to it, this one can't say. Other than to make a flippant remark along the lines of "well, it's going to be substantially less dangerous than driving on the wrong side of the road." Or failing to treat clinical depression, for that matter.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
No. It is not dangerous if you are not using ceremonial magic methods to work with them. If you are using "friendly" ways of invoking then it is no problem, ever...
 

DanielR

Active Member
No. It is not dangerous if you are not using ceremonial magic methods to work with them. If you are using "friendly" ways of invoking then it is no problem, ever...


Mindmaster, you should know that since I believe (not sure) you are a Chaote as well :D, but do Chaos Magicians incorporate elements from the Goetia?

Does Chaos really mean incorporate elements (from different schools) that you want?

Is this meant by nothing is real (true) everything is permitted?
 

DanielR

Active Member
what I mean is, if I wanted to use Kabbala with Goetia (or as mentioned in the other thread Sumerian symbolism and myth) I'm allowed to do so? :p
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Chaotes can use whatever methods they like. They borrow whatever methods work for them, or just make up completely new ones based on a few rules.

Personally, I think Kabbalah in the Western magical use the term is a set of worthless correspondences that have no precedent in history to be used. Do not confuse this with the Jewish version -- it is completely non-related. Before orders like the Golden Dawn they just don't exist -- which means they were likely just a construct of Mathers and friends. Basically, they were creating a complex set of symbolism that may or not reflect any sort of reality.

As far as the nothing is true, everything is permitted. It's a simple way of saying that we don't actually see the true nature of reality, but rather we see its reflections -- thus no one has a monopoly of the absolute truth. It is similar to how some religions have a concept of maya, but without all of the assumptions cooked in about karma and afterlife. If matter (or even thought) is a scaffold for which the three dimensions and time hang as well as all the properties associated with the thing -- matter itself exists outside of perception we can only define it in a tautological way through these definitions we actually do not know what it is because we can't see it. (Whatever it is, it is independent of these properties which are largely products of our senses..) Magic in a chaos outlook is the same -- it exists outside of our ability to view, but we can infer it's existence via various processes -- action a yields result b. Again, a tautological definition is required to explain the unseen action... We have to infer its existence from tracking the results.

There is also a philosophical aspect that is reflected in this statement as well -- that no method of self-identification succeeds in providing the absolute truth. Too much religious thinking leads to intolerance and too much rational thinking results in the "tyranny of logic" and nihilism. All of these extremes provide relative truths at best, and we should also consider the universal random number generator to be at play as well. :)

Chaotes realize that all of these "selves" can be integrated as tools and use whatever aesthetics as necessary to excite their mind. The difference is they don't get sucked into the trappings of the systems like followers of them do. :)
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
I highly recommend you read the introduction to this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aleister-Crowleys-Illustrated-Goetia-Christopher/dp/1561840483

It will answer all your questions regarding the "safety" and efficacy of Goetic Magick.
It does work, but to get it to work you need to fairly well versed in ceremonial Magick. Some might disagree, but the effort and practise required to "get it right" imo means it's not for beginners - simply because it's quite complicated!

Goetic Magick is best used in times of desperation.

There are many other forms of ceremonial Magick you could be getting on with if you want to start practising!
 

Octavia156

OTO/EGC
I suffer from depression, I'm not sure if in that case it's safe to conjure demons :D

I better stay away from it, though it sounds intriguing

People may strongly disagree with me, but Magick could very well be an excellent remedy for depression, and if you have the grounding, and a disciplined foundation, working with evocation could** be exactly what you need.

I'm neither a doctor nor a psychologist so maybe I'm not best placed to advise on this.
 

DanielR

Active Member
I highly recommend you read the introduction to this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Aleister-Crowleys-Illustrated-Goetia-Christopher/dp/1561840483

It will answer all your questions regarding the "safety" and efficacy of Goetic Magick.
It does work, but to get it to work you need to fairly well versed in ceremonial Magick. Some might disagree, but the effort and practise required to "get it right" imo means it's not for beginners - simply because it's quite complicated!

Goetic Magick is best used in times of desperation.

There are many other forms of ceremonial Magick you could be getting on with if you want to start practising!

wow what a coincidence, I ordered this book from Amazon and expecting it to arrive in the next couple of days haha, I'm already looking forward to it.

you may also be right about the depression thing, I'm at a point unfortunately where medication doesn't work anymore, I'll keep it safe :).
 

1137

Here until I storm off again
Premium Member
Could you give a short definition of how Goetia differs from other magic?
 

ThirtyThree

Well-Known Member
Yes, is it, lol?

I want to start practicing magic now, Goetia sounds good and fascinating and fits well with Qliphotic Kabbala but is it dangerous?

Are the rituals in the Goetia dangerous? Yes. How dangerous are these rituals? This depends on circumstances and the practitioner. Make your choice, carry through with it and accept the consequences.
 

Gyrannon

Agnostic Necromancer
Ars Goetia - where you attempt to communicate with those from the Greater Key of Solomon.

Is it Dangerous? Depends on you.
These beings you are invoking CAN be dangerous, but mostly if you disrespect them, they are not tools you can simply make demands, you have to earn their respect & your have to gain what they MIGHT give.

Read up on all of the 72 before doing anything involving them, and pay attention & respect their hierarchy.
And remember that "Demon" is considered an insult to them, just like calling a black man the N-word.

Demons do exist, but the 72 are NOT Demons, they are entities who have great knowledge & power. Abaddon for instance is a Demon, Astaroth however isn't.

If you anger them, they'll vanish from you, and after that its like Good luck getting back on their good side.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth


I would suggest exploring the Goetia regardless of how you perceive demons. Maybe you view them as deific archetypes of human Nature, or Thoughtforms, ancient gods, Infernal beings, intradimensional extraterrestrials, etc. Maybe you have a thing for Abrahamic mythology, maybe you don't. No matter how you look at it, incorporating the Goetia can be an exciting adventure.



 
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