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Is "God's Word" Really Man's Word?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Actually, that's the first time I've ever seen it.... but I LOVE it.How many posters remember this....
PureX
Veteran Member
Just because words come from the human mind and heart don't mean that they can't be a "divine message" to an inspired listener or reader. I think the problem arises when the claim is made apart from the spiritual inspiration. As in "God wrote my bible whether you can see it or not!" Without the spiritual inspiration needed to awaken us to the divine ideals within us, it's just men talking/writing about stuff. And some religionist telling me I'm supposed to be inspired by some other religionist's quote just doesn't do it.
Considering God doesn't use words, the mystic who received this 'divine message' must somehow make it public. So does it then become God's authoritative 'word'? I am quite comfortable believing that the Agent in creation that we have named God, remains an incomprehensible Mystery.
And you know this... how?
Consider the alternative, to believe that God dictated words to humans who took dictation as robots.
Definitely no "secretary's day" or "executive administrator's day" in your company!
Certainly! (and thank you for your reply above)
As the all-knowing, all-powerful one/s who is/are intending to make sure every human gets his/her/its/their message in a clear and understandable manner, then the deity/ies involved would know to adjust their broadcasts so that no one misses out...
...rather than sending it on limited frequencies so that (as it would know) some will not receive the message, or not receive it clearly or completely....
Seems like the sender bears considerably more than half of the responsibility, as 1) he/she/it/them created the receivers, with all their flaws, and is responsible for their condition, and 2) he/she/it/them is also responsible for the broadcast medium and content...
I don't know... it seems clear enough. For an example, how many people subscribe to the position that murder is OK? Or that taking someones else's wife is just "culture" and it is approved?
Seems like people are tuned in pretty good.
And yet, it still seems like many people aren't tuned in, even those who claim to be, and even those who really want to be...
And yet, "Damnation to those!" because deity knows and yet won't make the additional effort to make sure EVERYONE gets the message, loud and clear and incontrovertible...
And, so it's not God's fault, we'll have a convenient Satan to blame for misleading those who should have known from hearing the loud, clear and incontrovertible truth...
PureX
Veteran Member
There is no "authorization". Divine revelation is perceived, not dictated. And it can come from anywhere.
arthra
Baha'i
The experience of revelation itself is an important qualifier in my opinion... in other words there have been instances recorded in history where the "Word of God" occurred as a revelatory experience and not the result of say mere book learning or copying but through a revelatory experience.
Such as:
Narrated 'Aisha:
(the mother of the faithful believers) Al-Harith bin
Hisham asked Allah's Apostle "O Allah's
Apostle! How is the Divine Inspiration revealed
to you?" Allah's Apostle replied, "Sometimes it is
(revealed) like the ringing of a bell, this form of
Inspiration is the hardest of all and then this state
passes ' off after I have grasped what is inspired.
Sometimes the Angel comes in the form of a man
and talks to me and I grasp whatever he says."
'Aisha added: Verily I saw the Prophet being
inspired Divinely on a very cold day and noticed
the Sweat dropping from his forehead (as the
Inspiration was over).
Volume 1, Book 1, Number 3
and
"`Day and night,' an eye-witness has written, `the Divine verses were raining down in such number that it was impossible to record them. Mírzá Áqá Ján wrote them as they were dictated, while the Most Great Branch was continually occupied in transcribing them. There was not a moment to spare.' `A number of secretaries,' Nabíl has testified, `were busy day and night and yet they were unable to cope with the task. Among them was Mírzá Báqir-i-Shírází.... He alone transcribed no less than two thousand verses every day. He laboured during six or seven months. Every month the equivalent of several volumes would be transcribed by him and sent to Persia. About twenty volumes, in his fine penmanship, he left behind as a remembrance for Mírzá Áqá Ján.' Bahá'u'lláh, Himself, referring to the verses revealed by Him, has written: `Such are the outpourings ... from the clouds of Divine Bounty that within the space of an hour the equivalent of a thousand verses hath been revealed.' `So great is the grace vouchsafed in this day that in a single day and night, were an amanuensis capable of accomplishing it to be found, the equivalent of the Persian Bayán would be sent down from the heaven of Divine holiness.' `I swear by God!' He, in another connection has affirmed, `In those days the equivalent of all that hath been sent down aforetime unto the Prophets hath been revealed.' `That which hath already been revealed in this land (Adrianople),' He, furthermore, referring to the copiousness of His writings, has declared, `secretaries are incapable of transcribing. It has, therefore, remained for the most part untranscribed.'"
The Writings of Baha'u'llah
From the OP
One is public revelation (Scripture) perceived through the mystic who received it and the other is private revelation. Concerning the latter I would question the source. I'm sure many of those in Virginia saw no contradiction between a member of their religious faith and belonging to the neo Nazis and the KKK. There are 100s of thousands of denominations all claiming to follow the 'word' of God according to the Holy Spirit. If one hears a voice in their head and thinks its God, see a shrink.
PureX
Veteran Member
Revelation is an interpretive phenomena, not a dictatorial phenomena. Words on paper don't contain any revelation. They don't contain anything but the ink they're written in. The Bible is no more revelatory than a fourth grade math textbook. It's how one chooses to interpret what they read that causes it to become revelatory, or doesn't. And even then, what one chooses to find 'revelatory' depends on how they are already understanding the truth and reality of the world around them.
A klansman reads the Bible and experiences the 'revelation' that his white skin makes him superior to other men, in God's eyes. A heterosexual reads the Bible and experiences the 'revelation' that his sexual preference makes him more righteous than a homosexual, in God's eyes. God's mind has not been "revealed" to either of these men. Because God's mind is not contained in the words of the Bible. The 'revelation' that men have reading the Bible is the result of their own interpretation of the text. It is a "truth" that they choose to hold within themselves, about themselves. And there is nothing "authoritative" about it.
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It was perceived and interpreted as God's authority by the recipient of the initial revelation.
PureX
Veteran Member
Yes. An entirely subjective perception and interpretation that should not be presumed nor imposed upon others.
The Covenant is binding on both parties who enter. It is in this way that it is authoritative. If you have entered no such covenant you have no obligation to it. If your hang up is caused by Covenant law, or what particular religions follow, imposed by secular law, then I agree.
PureX
Veteran Member
There is no "covenant" involved but the one the reader chooses to presume upon himself.
There is no "authority" beyond whatever authority the reader chooses to assign to it.
Right. It's only as real/true as you choose to believe it to be.
There is no "hang up". There are simply different interpretations of the text, and different degrees of adherence to one's interpretation.